Transcript: The Science of Microdosing Psychedelics – Paul Austin
Please enjoy this transcript of The Science of Microdosing Psychedelics: What You Need to Know.
Whether you’ve microdosed hundreds of times and consider yourself an “expert” or never touched a single psychedelic substance, this webinar will be productive, informative, and insightful.
In this interview we talk about:
- The groundbreaking findings released about microdosing over the past two years.
- How to apply this research to your own microdosing protocol.
To discover how microdosing can help you change habits, enhance creativity, and optimize your own performance, check out our new and improved Microdosing Course.
0:00:07 Paul Austin: We are live. Can you all hear me? I’m just gonna do a check. Check, check. Can you guys all hear me? I’m just gonna do a check-in. Before we get done with the webinar, I wanna welcome you all to this webinar. My name is Paul Austin. I’m the founder of Third Wave. I’m a website focused on empowering individuals to use psychedelics with intention and responsibility. Before we keep going, I just wanna check in to make sure you guys can hear me. You guys can hear me? Cool. Okay, thank you, appreciate that. I had some technical issues coming in, which is getting a little bit nervous about. Actually, I’m super nervous ’cause I didn’t know if this is gonna work. This is not a recording, Bob. No, no, no, this is live. So Kate, Don, Hugo, Joanne, I wanna welcome all of you to this webinar about the microdosing research that has come out so far. We have probably about an hour. I wanna make sure I’m respectful of your time and your energy and your attention, but we have a lot to go through today. We do have a lot to go through tonight.
0:01:19 PA: Now, because I had some of these technical issues, I do need to go ahead and pull up my PowerPoint that I’m going to present to you guys. So after I give a brief introduction, I’ll just need a minute or two to pull it up. So please, just bear with me. Technical issues would bite you every time. Okay, so I’m just gonna give us… Actually, I’m gonna give us three to four more minutes. We still have quite a few people coming in. I wanna make sure that everybody is in before we really get going. I’m gonna go ahead and pull up the documents and the resources that I need to. So in the meantime, if you could just go ahead and introduce yourself, I’d love to know just three things: Where you’re from? Why you’re interested in microdosing. Is it for clinical reasons? Is it for creativity? Is it for just general enhancement of mood? Is it you’ve never done psychedelics before; you think it’s a great way to do psychedelics? If you could just write a little bit in the chatbox, let us know why you’re here, why you’re interested in microdosing and also, where you’re from.
0:02:24 PA: I’m actually doing this broadcast live from New York City. I lived here in New York for a couple of years. I recently moved to Berkeley, California, actually. So I’m doing this from New York. Originally, I’m from Michigan. And the reason that I’m interested in microdosing was to help with flow states and really getting in the zone on creative projects. And then to also help with social anxiety. And I began microdosing a few years ago. I’ll tell a little bit more about my story once we’re all here. We have about 400 people in here, which is great, guys. I’m so excited for this, 400 people in a webinar about microdosing research. I think this just shows how much excitement there is around psychedelics right now, how much of a thing that they’re really becoming. I saw someone’s from Finland. That’s fantastic. It’s 3:00 AM in Finland. Dennis is from the New Jersey suburbs. Kim is from Cayce in Southern Carolina. Heather was born in Michigan, too. Lauren from Tampa Bay, creativity and mood. Hi, Darren and Rob from San Francisco. Mark from Michigan. Greg a PTSD. Laura, it’s 4:00 AM in Lavia. Laura is in Lavia. A few years ago when we go, I love it there. Cindy from Pensacola. Hower from Brooklyn. I could just keep going and going. So I’m really excited for all of you to be here. Christa from Georgia, Ryan from Michigan, Charisa from Los Angeles.
0:03:50 PA: We’re gonna give things a couple more minutes. I just wanna make sure that we have plenty of time, everyone to come in so they can learn as much about microdosing as possible. And in the meantime, I just have a couple questions that I’ve set up for you guys. I’d love just to start this off with a couple questions. The first question that I have is: Have you tried a proper microdosing protocol before? So have you tried microdosing where you’ve done it once or twice a week for a period of time to see how it’s impacted and how it’s affected you? Go ahead and fill that out. I’m seeing about 30% yes, 70% no. And I’d be curious how that changes once I clarify a little bit more about what I mean by “proper microdosing protocol”. Because I think that will help to clarify a few things. Okay, I’m just gonna pull up my PowerPoint. Just please bear with me. I was having some technical issues earlier, so I wanna get those handled and taken care of.
0:05:03 PA: Here it is. Alright, I got it right here. Just gonna take me a second to pull it off, pull it up and then share it on my screen. In the meantime, while that’s downloading, I’m just gonna share a little bit about my story so all of you know who I am, why I’m here teaching you, what’s going on. So my name is Paul Austin. I’m the founder of Third Wave. It was a platform that we started in mid-2015. I believe I purchased thethirdwave.co on September 1, 2015, so it’s been around for about four years now, which is nuts and insane. And really, we started a lot of our initial early content about microdosing. So we built an initial infographic on microdosing, and we developed some longer-form content around microdosing. And what we really thought of is microdosing is such a fantastic way to familiarize yourself with psychedelics in general. Because it is such a low dose, basically, sub-perceptible, you’re not feeling a lot of the “tripping effects” yet, a lot of people are reporting incredible benefits when they microdose consistently over a period of time.
0:06:18 PA: And so, from those early days, one thing led to another. We kept publishing content. We did a number of talks and webinars. We rolled out even a microdosing course a couple years ago where we gave really specific information and expert interviews. And now, four years later, we have about a half million people who come to the website every month to learn about microdosing. We’re informally involved in some microdosing research. We’ve done some microdosing research with our own community and our email list. We’ve also collaborated with a couple other people to help them do microdosing research. Jim Fadiman who is more or less the microdosing godfather is a friend of mine and a mentor. And really, the hope, for me at least, in getting involved with microdosing, and the hope on a societal level is really like we’re facing this sort of impending global apocalypse with the oncoming ecological crisis, and more than just microdosing, I really see psychedelics as these fantastic tools to help us to wake up, grow up, and show up.
0:07:40 PA: And when we first learn to work with psychedelics in a microdosing fashion, we become familiar with the medicine and we understand how it works with us, then eventually we go deeper and deeper into higher states. So the metaphor that I like to use when talking about microdosing is that microdosing is like you’re swimming in the shallow end of a pool and just sort of getting used to it, whereas high doses it’s like you jump in the deep end and it’s a real thing. So today we’re just gonna learn how to swim in the shallow end. We’re gonna learn what microdosing research has taught us about microdosing, what’s true and what isn’t true, what potential benefits you can expect according to the research, what downsides you should be aware of according to the research, and then what research you should pay attention to and what you should disregard and pay… And how you should basically stick to your own intuition. So that’s the process we’ll go through. I’m gonna highlight and outline three main studies that have been done. Then I’m going to get into the benefits, the neutral parts of those studies, and some of the negative aspects of those studies. And finally, like I said, then I’ll talk about why this stuff matters and how you can actually work with it.
0:09:00 PA: So we have about 400 people in here right now, so we’re gonna go ahead and get started with the webinar. It’s about quarter after nine, so this is perfect timing. I’m just gonna pull up my PowerPoint and then we’ll get started.
0:09:28 PA: I love silence sometimes ’cause you don’t often hear silence too often. It’s just cool to sit in this. In fact, let’s just take two minutes right now. I know there’s like, what, 420 of you on, take two minutes, I’m gonna pull up this webinar, and let’s just, if you can, go inwards a little bit, pay attention to your breath, just kind of drop in with all of us, and just let’s spend these two minutes in silence. Let’s spend these two minutes being quiet, let’s spend these two minutes paying attention to ourselves. Let’s spend these two minutes just dropping in a little bit, and then we can really get started with something. So I’m gonna mute myself now.
0:11:38 PA: Okay. Let’s go ahead and get in. I’m gonna go ahead and share this PowerPoint with you and we’re gonna jump right in, guys. Get ready. This is gonna be about 40 minutes of pretty intense digging. I will repeat some things at the end. We can also make the slides available after the fact, if you want. We’re also recording this. So there will be a YouTube recording, so if there’s some stuff you miss, don’t worry it’ll be available for free afterwards and you can get access to it. No problem at all. So I just wanna make sure, is this showing up for you all in the… It looks like this is showing up for you. Perfect. So The Science of Microdosing, what you need to know. We can do our best to make the chat transcript, that will be difficult. Science of microdosing, what you need to know. Alright. Let’s go and get started.
0:12:32 PA: So first of all, this is something that we include in our microdosing course and it just is a quick note on personal responsibility. And I’m just gonna read through this ’cause I think this is just generally good advice. The many potential benefits that can result from using psychedelics, one of the most important is the users increased willingness and capacity to take ownership over their own life. That means taking responsibility for actions and their consequences, acting with informed self-awareness to create better outcomes for ourselves, and understanding our own limitations. With that in mind, we kindly ask you consider the following as you move through this course, or even through this webinar, through this process you’re going through as you look to microdose.
0:13:15 PA: First things first. Remember that psilocybin and LSD are illegal in most western countries, so please act responsibly. First of all, refrain from harming yourself or others. Do not offer expertise to someone else that you do not have. Choose your words wisely. Do not discuss any illegal activity, in written communication or otherwise documented communication. Share your authentic and hopefully enthusiastic reflections of your experiences, but do not assume that others will have the same experience. And please, consider the bigger picture. Your decision to microdose implicitly associates you with a wider movement of passionate care in individuals deciding to use these medicines that have been prohibited for a very long time.
0:13:57 PA: How you relate your experience could impact the perception of the greater movement. And as such, we ask that you do so mindfully. So just quick note on personal responsibility too, something that I really wanted to share with you all. So again, this is what we’re gonna go over today. It’s pretty quick. An overview of the research, conclusions from the research, why this research matters to you, and what’s next? First of all, start with the basics. What is microdosing? Microdosing is consuming a sub-perceptual amount of a psychedelics for a consistent period of time with a specific intention or purpose to improve cognitive function and emotional well-being. So this is when I asked at the beginning of the webinar today, how many of you have done a specific microdosing protocol over a period of time? About 35% of you said that you had and 65% of you said that you hadn’t.
0:14:51 PA: Well, some people think microdosing is just taking a small dose the psychedelic a month. Really microdosing is much more than that. It’s about coming to it with an intention, calibrating the dose appropriately, and then integrating your experience for improved improved cognitive function and emotional well-being. But typically, this means for LSD a microdose is between six and 20 micrograms, so it’s about between a 16th and a fifth of a single tab. For psilocybin mushrooms, a microdose is between 0.2 grams and 0.5 grams. Some would say, you could go as low as 0.1 grams. With psilocybin mushrooms, it’s important that you’re careful about how you start with those, because the potency of one group of mushrooms could be different than the potency of a different set of mushrooms. To maximize the benefits and results, it’s best to think of microdosing as a protocol. So that means starting out a microdosing two times per week for five weeks followed by at least a one-week break period.
0:15:49 PA: This protocol was developed by Dr. James Fadiman, one of the pioneers of psychedelic research and microdosing as a way to optimize the realization of benefits, and avoid the development of tolerance. As such you’ll notice that we refer to the microdosing protocol throughout the course. This is a slide from our course. We strongly urge you to consider microdose as engaging in a protocol rather than just taking a single microdose. Now, with the research that we’re going to share today and I wanna come back here quick. With the research that we’re going to share today, there’s gonna be two different types of research that we focus on, okay? So one type of research is an observational study, that’s a type of research that Dr. James Fadiman has done. That’s the type of research that’s been done out of the University of Toronto. And we’ll highlight those as part of the talk today.
0:16:39 PA: There’s also a clinical research. And some of the clinical research has just been someone taking one microdose one time and that’s it. Some of the clinical research has been an individual taking a microdose two or three times, but there’s really been no clinical research done so far. If someone takes, for example, a microdose two times a week over a period of five weeks. When I started microdosing, I did it for seven months. And now I usually microdose one to two times a week, sometimes less, usually never more often. So the very most I’ll do it one or two times per week. And I’ll pick very specific instances to do that. And you might… And thank you for mentioning that Jerry. You guys might see a bit of audio-video links as I switch back and forth between the screen share and the visual share. So if that occurs, please, just be patient with me as we go through with this. So those are some of the research. Let’s get into the research, right? Let’s look at what Dr. James Fadiman has done. Let’s look at what the researchers at the University of Toronto have done. Let’s look a little bit into the clinical studies that have been done as well. Okay.
0:18:02 PA: And I just wanted share this, actually the pleasure of going to hang out with Jim Fadiman the other week in Menlo Park. And so, Jim and I have some… We have a relationship, we’re friends. He’s been very helpful in a lot of this process and that shows that we’re somewhat involved in the research, but we’re not doing explicit research or so. We’re much more on the, I would say Evangelical side of things, really trying to spread the message and the word as far and wide as possible because we do believe that microdosing can have a transformative impact on both the individual and the collective. So let’s go through and start with an overview of the microdosing research. This is a quote from Jim Fadiman. “Let me give you a parallel. When you get older, you’re supposed to take a baby Aspirin, 81 milligrams daily for your heart. Now aspirin has been around as a drug for 150 years, but it was only 20 years ago that somebody said, “What would be the effect of taking one-fifth the usual dose?” It keeps people dying from heart disease, but nobody noticed.”
0:19:05 PA: Now he was using this as a parallel for microdosing, because psychedelics have obviously been around for thousands and thousands of years, since the first wave of indigenous use. However, it’s only recently, particularly from a western perspective, that we started to really pay attention to using smaller amounts on a more consistent basis and what that could potentially do. And that leads us into the first study, which was Dr. James Fadiman and Dr. Sophia Korb, The Phenomenon Research Results and Startling Surprises. Now, I’m giving you this because if you want to screen shot this, you can look up the research with more in depth. There’s a YouTube video that goes full into it so if you need to, that’s why I provided that. So Jim and Sophia presented their findings in April 2017, at the MAPS Psychedelic Science Conference. Now, again, this was an observational study basically and I think 2010 or 2011, Jim Fadiman heard about microdosing, started it himself while writing a book, really enjoyed it, started collecting just reports, short reports from other people sending out micro doses of LSD in the mail, getting short reports back and then he started the website, microdosingpsychedelics.com and started collecting a lot of data.
0:20:23 PA: That’s when he brought in Dr. Sophia Korb to start to analyze the data. Jim Fadiman is someone who loves the search process. He loves to look for amazing things that happen, but he’s not so interested in the “Research Process.” That’s why he brought in Dr. Sophia Korb. So in January 2016, they published the full results of their research. As reported by Vice News, the data was called from the reports of 418 volunteers: 284 were men, 126 were women. The age range was from 18 to 78, with an average age of 34. And a full three quarters of the participants cited depression as their primary reason for choosing to microdose. Now that’s interesting because I’m not someone who’s clinically depressed. Yet, I would say that, since I was probably 12 or 13 I struggled with depression for most of my life. So I think many of us in the Western world have some level of depression. And second, and microdosing in particular, seems to be very helpful for that. On the whole, as it says here, those taking LSD micro doses reported a remarkable increase in feelings of determination, alertness and energy, as well as a strong decrease in feelings of depression.
0:21:41 PA: Now, there were a few more interesting results as well. Five color blind participants reported seeing tracers, which are the glowing trails that follow moving objects typically experienced by people tripping on acid despite the incredibly small doses they were taking. Thereby marking the first time that this effect on microdosing LSD has been observed. Additionally, one of the women involved in the study had experienced debilitating menstrual pain for her entire life. She reported having these pains completely abate as a result of microdosing. Now, this speaks to some of them, this speaks to some of the people and some of the overall impacts of microdosing. How although, with research and I’ll kinda get further into this, in this presentation, with research we know that it helps with depression and mood enhancement, essentially. But it’s also having this wide range of other effects. Now that’s similar to high doses of psychedelics. How high doses of psychedelics are great at treating PTSD, addiction, depression, alcoholism, social anxiety, there are a number of… Inflammation in the body, right? So psychedelics are seeming to have a holistic effect in getting to the root cause of an issue that then relates to depression, addiction, anxiety, in all these other things.
0:23:12 PA: From my understanding of microdosing, it’s doing something very similar. Microdosing is working from a holistic perspective, on both the mind by activating the 5hctA receptor, by increasing the amount of serotonin that’s in the brain, but also in the gut, by helping us deal with inflammation. Psychedelics are highly anti-inflammatory. 90% of our serotonin is in the gut. So microdosing is having that holistic effect. So that’s why we’re seeing, again these really weird things like, color blind participants are a mess and people have debilitating menstrual pain or having this and… Jim Fadiman’s favorite one is people who have Shingles. They start microdosing and their Shingles go away as a result of microdosing.
0:23:53 PA: So there’s something that’s going on, on a holistic level, with microdosing that’s having a wide spread of factors. Okay, let’s get to the second research study. So that one was presented in 2017. Then, in 2018 and again in 2019, there were two researchers from the University of Toronto, Thomas Anderson and Rotem Petranker, who started doing research on the results of microdosing by again doing an observational study. So whereas, Jim Fadiman and Sophia Korb had taken data from all these people who had gone in their website and started filling it out. Thomas and Rotem went to the sub-reddit of microdosing. So if you go to reddit.com/r/microdosing, you’ll find, and I’ll just put that link in there, in here for all of you. You’ll find the sub-reddit that Thomas and Rotem utilizing… You collect some of this other…
0:24:54 PA: Okay? So Reddit.com/r/microdosing. Now, what did Thomas and Rotem find? Well, they had two studies so I’m gonna highlight both the studies. The first one, and again, I’m doing this in case you want to look this up and go further into this. Microdosing Psychedelics, Personality, Mental Health and Creativity Differences in Microdosers. Like I said, they were recruited from online forums. The people that they collected, the data that they collected, showed that they scored lower on measures of dysfunctional attitudes and negative emotionalities. In layman’s terms, that essentially means that they had fewer negative emotions, that they were less depressed, that they were able to be more present. So there were a number of things that that dysfunctional attitudes represent. But it’s basically kind of the sense of negativity, the sense of things going against you, the sense of “Life isn’t so good, I don’t feel like I have a lot of agency, I don’t feel like I can really make a difference.” And people who microdosed scored lower on those measurements.
0:26:04 PA: People who microdosed scored higher on wisdom, open-mindedness and creativity. So that means that wisdom essentially just means that there was a greater sense of presence, a greater sense of peace, a greater ability to respond rather than react to stimuli. Open-mindedness just means that you’re willing to change your mind, you’re willing to make new decisions, and this maps on to what we know about psychedelics in general. Again, because of their impact on seratonin in the brain, it looks like there’s a really strong connection between psychedelics and neuroplasticity. And then they also showed higher in creativity, and again, this goes into the kind of way microdosing gained popularity was in Silicon Valley you had coders and engineers and developers and executives who were utilizing microdosing and still use microdosing to help with peak states. Now, Thomas and Rotem did a set and setting as well, and this was just published in the Harm Reduction Journal, it’s called The Psychedelic Microdosing Benefits and Challenges: An Imperial Codebook. Now, they recruited 278 participants who said they microdosed from online forums; again, primarily the microdosing sub-reddit.
0:27:19 PA: Of the total, 26.6% reported an improved mood; 14.8% reported improved focus; and 12.9% reported improved memory. In addition, 18% of people experienced physiological discomfort, either nausea or headaches, something like that; and 29.5% said the illegality of the drugs was a problem. We’re going to come back to this, so I’m not gonna leave this by itself. There are a lot of points that I want to make here, particularly with the 26.6% reporting improved mood and the 29.5% who said the illegality of the drugs was a problem. But I do want to move on a little bit. Last research that we want to pay attention to is clinical research that was published on microdosing; there were two papers specifically. And again, I’m giving the names here so you can look these up if you need to. One is The Effects of Microdosed LSD and Time Perception, and the other is Acute Subjective and Behavioral Effects of Microdoses of LSD in Healthy Human Volunteers. I forgot the quotation mark.
0:28:30 PA: In study number one, microdoses helped subjects to perceive time with more accuracy. So essentially they did a randomized double-blind placebo-controlled trial involving LSD; the subjects, mostly adults, were given three microdoses of LSD at 5, 10 and 20 micrograms. And there’s a great piece on Scientific American written up about this, basically as reported by Scientific American. The study started to piece together a compelling story on how LSD alters the brain’s perceptive and cognitive systems in a way that could lead to more creativity and focus. Essentially what this means is even at the lowest level of 5 micrograms of LSD, the participants perceived time in a different way, meaning that something was going on, even at a super-low level, on cognitive function. We don’t know what, but something was going on. In study number two, single microdoses of LSD produced orderly dose-related subjective effects in healthy volunteers, and a threshold dose of 13 micrograms of LSD might be used safely in an investigation of repeated administration. So essentially with that one, it was another double-blind placebo-controlled study. Again, just single microdoses were given, but essentially what this study proved more than anything was that microdosing is not a placebo.
0:30:03 PA: We’re gonna come back here, I’m just gonna check in on you all, see how you’re doing. So let’s recap there; we have the first study from Dr. James Fadiman and Dr. Sophia Korb that showed that essentially microdosing helps depression, and it helps increase feelings of alertness and energy. We have the set and setting from Thomas and Rotem from the University of Toronto; a couple that showed that it helped with negative attitude, negative emotionality, dysfunctional attitude. And that it also helped with creativity, mood, open-mindedness and wisdom. And then we had the two clinical trials that were done that basically showed that even at doses as low as 5 micrograms of LSD there was an effect. There was an effect on how the subjects perceived time, and there was also an effect on… Just there was a physical reaction in the second one, from both 6.5 micrograms and 13 micrograms of LSD. I’ll explain why that matters in a little bit here. So now I wanna go on to, okay, based on the research that we’ve been able to collect, the research that’s been done so far, what are some of the benefits, what are some of the neutral aspects of microdosing, and what are some of the negative things to be aware of according to the research? Let’s go ahead and get in to that.
0:31:30 PA: So what conclusions can we draw from the preliminary research? So what do people experience, benefits from microdosing? So for those struggling with depression, anxiety, PTSD, ADD, ADHD, mood disorders, and/or addiction, microdosing create a number of positive changes. Reduction or alleviation of depressive symptoms. Again, we saw this from Fadiman’s study, we also saw it from Thomas and Rotem’s study. Increase in feelings of determination, alertness and energy. And again, this makes sense. I mean for those of you who have microdose before or even in higher doses of LSD feel how there’s more energy coming, there’s more excitement, there tends to be this sense of wanting to get out and to do things and to get involved. Like I said, fewer negative emotions or dysfunctional attitudes, improved mood and focus, more wisdom, open-mindedness, and creativity. And it’s not a placebo effect even at doses as low as 6.5 micrograms. Finally, one thing I haven’t touched on, is that a lot of people showed general behavioural improvements, including improved anxiety, more meditative practice and exercise. People also reported that their eating habits improved, they sleep better, and that they have reduced use of caffeine and alcohol as a result of microdosing.
0:33:03 PA: Let’s now get into neutral aspects of microdosing. What do people experience, what are the neutral aspects of microdosing? First and foremost, many people quit microdosing because they do not feel anything. I’m going to return to that a little bit, but again, I wanna remind us that according to the clinical research, microdosing is not a placebo. So even if we’re not feeling anything, there’s still something going on on the gut and the mind level and that’s important to notice, and that’s important to understand. The second thing is to pay close attention to set and setting. Some of the research showed that microdosing can enhance anxiety if used in an inappropriate context. My story around this is, when I moved to New York City a couple of years ago, I couldn’t microdose anymore because microdosing just… It was too stimulating, there was too much energy, and so I got pretty anxious as a result. So, pay close attention to set and setting as you’re microdosing. In a recent study published one of them from Thomas and Rotem, 29.5% of respondents said the illegality of drugs was an issue. So, to address this, make sure you always test your substances and/or understand how you acquired your substances. So either you grow the mushrooms yourself, you know where the mushrooms come from. If you’re ordering it from Canada, you trust the lab that you’re ordering it from, etcetera, etcetera.
0:34:32 PA: Finally, the last thing is stigma. There’s still a lot of stigma around psychedelics, there’s still a lot of stigma around microdosing. So if you talk about this with friends or family, just be aware of that. And that’s for many people the hardest part about starting psychedelics or microdosing is you have to hide it. You can’t really fully show up as yourself while you’re doing this. So this is changing, but it’s still presents an issue for many people. Okay, finally, what do people experience? What are the consequences of microdosing? So, remain mindful of these potential consequences when we get in your microdosing regimen. It’s not all rainbows and butterflies. This is important to know. One is increased neuroticism. When people stop microdosing, afterwards they notice that they were slightly more neurotic about things. And again, I’m gonna talk about why that might be the case and how you can address it in the next session.
0:35:28 PA: Potential cardiovascular issues. From my perspective, again, this is my personal opinion, I do not think that there are any long-term cardiovascular issues. In high dose psychedelic research, there’s never been anything proved with the classic psychedelics, LSD and psilocybin, in terms of there being cardiovascular issues. There have been issues with the MDMA but that’s largely because there’s an amphetamine aspect to MDMA. You should not microdose with MDMA. Do not microdose with MDMA. Do not microdose with MDMA. I just want to emphasize that. But some of the leading researchers will warn you of we’re guinea pigs, we don’t know long term what effect this could have so there might be potential cardiovascular issues. So just be aware of that.
0:36:12 PA: In a recent survey, 18% of people said they had experienced physiological discomfort, such as headaches, nausea, and insomnia. That again, this is a lot to do with just approaching it correctly. If you struggle with insomnia or anxiety, don’t microdose with LSD. Better to microdose with mushroom because mushrooms only last for six hours, LSD is for 12 hours. If you’re overly sensitive to substances, we have a phrase that we say, which is “Start low and go slow.” So if you start at a very low amount, then you can test and see if it causes some nausea for you, if there are some headaches that are occurring. So start low and go slow. The fourth thing, in a clinical trial, the highest dose of LSD was associated with a slight decrease in positivity ratings for emotionally positive pictures. Basically what that means is when they were emotionaly positive pictures there was less of a response for a positive reaction, so people were just more grounded and more centered. And in another clinical trial, LSD increased the number of attempted trials on a creativity task.
0:37:22 PA: And the reason I mentioned these two clinical things is just because as a representative of both the larger psychedelic community and also microdosing, I think it’s important to emphasize some of the clinical stuff that has been done. People have reported that they are more creative when they’re microdosing on LSD. At the same time, that can lead to less focus, that can lead to things becoming slightly more confusing, especially if too much is taken. So just be aware of those things as one’s triggers. Okay, so let’s review that quick. If it’s the main benefits, pay attention to our reduction or at least the issue of depressive symptoms, improved mood, and that it’s not a placebo effect. Also, a lot of people report general behavioral improvements from microdosing. Neutral, many people quit microdosing because they do not feel anything. I’m gonna come back to that in a sec. Pay close attention to set and setting, illegality of drugs, stigma. Consequences of microdosing, potentially increased neuroticism, potential cardiovascular issues, physiological discomfort, and there might not be emotionally as much reaction to positive things.
0:38:34 PA: Okay. Why do these conclusions matter? I like this one by Aldous Huxley. “There are things known, and there are things unknown, and in between are the doors of perception.” So there are certainly things that we now know about microdosing from research, but there are a lot of things that we don’t know about microdosing. And really, as an individual who is interested in healing and transformation, which is you, there are five things to keep in mind when microdosing. One is that, again, from the clinical research, we know that microdosing is not a placebo. Even at levels as low as 5 to 6.5 micrograms, there was a reaction. There was both a physical and a mental reaction to microdoses of LSD. Two, microdosing helps with depression and mood enhancement. Three, most people who do not benefit from microdosing are doing it incorrectly. I’m gonna come back to that point, but I’m just gonna emphasize that right now.
0:39:46 PA: Most people who do not benefit from microdosing are doing it incorrectly. Four, remain mindful of the negative effects, particularly neuroticism and anxiety. And five, there’s no long-term longitudinal data on microdosing. You are a human guinea pig. Again, we don’t know what impact or effect it can have over the long term. So it’s important to remain mindful and sensitive to what impacts they could have. Okay. I’m gonna stop sharing, and I’m gonna talk about a few of this. First, I wanna just check in to see if there are any questions.
0:40:45 PA: Okay. So before I go into these, I wanna discuss these last five points, but this will take up most of the rest of the webinar. I wanna go ahead and just check in, see how you all are doing. I want to go ahead and start a new poll just, again, to see where you guys are at. So if you’ve tried microdosing, did you have a positive, neutral, or negative experience? I’m curious. So you have tried microdosing, did you have a positive, neutral, or negative experience? I’ll just go ahead and wait for some of your responses. Interesting. We’ve about 380 people right now in the webinar. 85% of you said that your experience was positive, 15% of you said your experience was neutral, and we have no one who said it was negative, which I guess if someone had a negative experience, maybe they just wouldn’t be on this webinar. So that’s really interesting. Okay. Okay. Good to know. Okay. I wanna come back to those five points. I’m just checking out in the chat what to see, how you guys are doing… You are doing. We’ll have time. Looks like there are some questions popping up, so we’ll have time for Q&A at the end of the webinar.
0:42:21 PA: Again, I’m going to discuss these five things and why they matter to you. I’m gonna get a little bit more into what’s going on physiologically and mentally with microdosing. But I just wanna see what people are asking about, main differences between LSD, how long do you abstain from traditional substances, microdosing while on an anti-depressant. So these are all great questions. If you all could save some of these questions for the Q&A, at that would be… It would be fantastic. We’ll have the Q&A at the end, I wanna get back to these five points. Let’s go ahead and jump back onto the Screen Share. Okay. So one, microdosing is not a placebo. The reason that is important is because it means that the substance is having an effect, a positive impact, even if you can’t feel it. The parallel that I like to use is with fish oil. We know now from extensive research and study of fish oil supplements and generally balancing out your Omega-3 to your Omega-6 helps with inflammation in the body, helps you to become a healthier person.
0:43:40 PA: It helps with sleep, it helps your mood, it helps with a number of things. Keep that in mind as you microdose. Even if you’re not feeling it necessarily, it doesn’t mean it’s not having a positive impact on your gut underlying these sort of things. With that being said, it’s still useful and helpful to try to do a mini dose. So a microdose is fully sub-perceptual. You cannot deal at all. A mini dose is when you take a little bit more than a microdose and you sort of feel a general lift of mood, some sense of euphoria, an increase… An enhanced sense of touch, an enhanced sense of smell. You actually kinda know that you microdose and something is going on. That’s actually a mini dose, and it’s good as you’re going through this process to learn how to calibrate appropriately. You wanna learn, okay, what’s best for me when I’m microdosing? What’s best for me when I’m mini dosing. And then, of course, we have moderate dosing… I’m sorry. We have museum dosing. We have moderate dosing, and we have megadosing. And this goes back to the metaphor that I was speaking about earlier, in terms of that first we’ve learned to swim in the shallow end so we can go to deeper.
0:44:50 PA: There’s a number of dose levels that you can utilize with psychedelics, it’s not just a microdose or a macro-dose. There’s a microdose, there’s a little bit more than a microdose, there’s a dose that you might take a little bit more than that, where you have some slight visual changes. What matters most is your goals and your intentions, why you’re interested in microdosing. And then to utilize these substances to help with that process. Two, this is really good to know, microdosing helps with depression and mood enhancement. Albert Hofmann, who is the… Basically invented LSD, once said in the 70s that he fully believed that if 25 micrograms of LSD were prescribed, that they could be useful as an antidepressant. Now again, this isn’t microdoses, this is a mini-dose. But it’s important to know that because of microdosing’s impact on serotonin, because of microdosing’s impact on the gut, it’s generally giving you more energy, it’s helping you with depression and mood enhancement.
0:45:51 PA: A lot of people are noticing this. Three, those people who do not benefit from microdosing, do it incorrectly. Now, there’s a few ways that that can happen. One is in the preparation process, either you don’t acquire the right substance or you don’t set your intention appropriately, so it’s really important to clarify your intention, to understand why it is that you’re interested in microdosing. But the second reason, again this goes back to microdosing is not a placebo, is many people do not calibrate correctly. Before you start a full microdosing protocol, you should have an understanding of how does 5 micrograms of LSD affect me, how does 10 micrograms of LSD affect me, how does 20 micrograms of LSD affect me. And when you’re trying those different dose levels, do it in a safe environment, do it at home, do it where it’s comfortable, you don’t have any requirements and that way you can test and measure, “Okay, at 5, this is happening, at 10, this is happening, at 20, this is happening.”
0:46:50 PA: The other thing to notice is that when you’re microdosing, you’re going slightly higher, there might be some uncomfortable things that come up. There might be some uncomfortable truths that rise to the surface. That doesn’t mean you’re having a bad experience, it just means that you need to process and integrate things. And this is where having a coach or a therapists or a guide is really helpful during your microdosing protocol, because you don’t wanna just push something away because it’s difficult, but you really wanna try to learn and surrender to this process so you can get out of it as much as possible. Four, remain mindful of negative effects, particularly neuroticism and anxiety. With the neuroticism piece, this is why we always recommend that when you’re microdosing you should also have a complementary practice. You should meditate, you should do yoga, you should try to spend time in nature. microdosing is usually just a catalyst. It’s a catalyst to help inspire you to change your behavior, but really, the work is still up to you.
0:47:52 PA: So with these two negative effects, pay attention to meditation and yoga and a few other things. And finally, as I mentioned, there’s no long-term longitudinal data on microdosing. You’re a human guinea pig and that’s important to keep in mind. And remember, I feel perfectly comfortable and safe in doing it. Like I said, with the classic psychedelics, LSD and psilocybin, we don’t show any long-term negative effects, so it’s important to remember that. Okay, so now before we go into the Q&A, I just wanna again give you guys a little bit more context and a little bit more of a review of what we covered today. So the first thing that we covered are the microdosing research studies that have been done so far. This includes Dr. Fadiman and Sophia Korb’s study, this includes Thomas Anderson and Rotem Petranker’s study, and this includes the clinical research. So, again, we recorded this, if you wanna go back in those, you can get it in mail.
0:48:52 PA: Then we looked at the benefits, the neutral aspects, and the negative parts of microdosing. And finally, we talked about why these conclusions matter for you, what you should pay attention to and what you should not pay attention to. Because remember for a lot of this research, it’s basically looking at a bunch of different people. What matters is you, what matters is your experience, what matters is how you approach it, what matters is your intention, the amount that you take, it’s going to be very personal, it’s going to be very individual, and this is where the research that we have now, the clinical research and even some of these observational studies, they don’t give us quite the level of information that we need to really know how microdosing is impacting us on an individual level. So with all that being said, we do have a microdosing course available, we’ve had the microdosing course available for about two years. This is the main way that we’re able to generate revenue to keep this basically as an ongoing project.
0:49:54 PA: And essentially what we notice is as we were rolling out that microdosing course is giving people very specific advice on how to start microdosing and complimentary practices to utilize while microdosing, some of these things. But what we notice, is there were a lot of people who still wanted one-on-one help. They wanted a coach, or a guide, someone that they could call, someone they could email, who could help answer questions for them. Things like, how do I clarify my intention? How do I know what I’m doing necessarily? Things like, how do I calibrate my dose level appropriately? How do I integrate the experience appropriately? So what we thought we did, I’m sorry, what we did is we added a third tier to the microdosing course. So that’s what we’re making available to everyone who attends this webinar at a special discount, it’s a 20% discount, so if microdosing is something that you plan to do in the future, if microdosing is something that you really wanna get the most out of, then we’ve made an option available for you through our microdosing course to work one-on-one with a few coaches. So let me go ahead and close that out.
0:51:17 PA: I just wanna share those details with you before we get to Q and A. Essentially we’ve made what we’re calling a super human package available. We have two coaches available Matt Cooper who is focused on physical well-being and the fundamentals of physical well-being including fitness and key performance. And then we have Sarah Hope who is one of our microdosing coaches who helps with more of the emotional side of things. And essentially we’re making this available. It’s three 30 minute one-on-one calls with one of our certified microdosing coaches including how to prepare for the experience, how to conduct the experience, and how to integrate the experience. It includes individual email support for the 48-hour response time, demonstration videos on the ins and outs of microdosing LSD and mushrooms, an extensive online curriculum with three modules of educational content. Our 100-page plus microdosing course workbook and results tracking template and expert videos and preparation integration. You also get lifetime access to our course content as well as access to our kind of premium community of microdosing.
0:52:28 PA: If you have any of these questions I really do believe that the Superhuman package will be a really good fit for you. How do I start a microdosing regiment? How do I pick the one or two most important things to focus my energy on? How do I take the correct amount from my specific purpose for why I am microdosing? How do I know which substance to take? When do I stop microdosing? And what one to two complementary practices do I utilize after microdosing to continue getting these benefits. So these are all questions that our coaches will help you to answer with this super human package. Now before we get into the Q and A I am just going to make that available. So let’s go ahead and I’m gonna pull up the offer. And again for me this isn’t a hard sell this is something that we just genuinely believe that people would benefit from. So we’ve made that offer available if you guys could just click through on the get dialed-in link that we’ve made available now and tell me if it works. Just click through and let me know if it works. I’ll just wait for you guys.
0:53:54 PA: So if one of you could just click through let me know. Thanks Bob. Okay so it’s working. The link works. You’ll see all the information there on the page. If the super-human package is something that you’re interested in, if you’re interested in working one-on-one with a coach to really kickstart your microdosing protocol to help with the preparation, to help with the experience itself and to help with the integration we’ll have that available. And that’s available. That deal is available until Sunday. So if you need time to think about it, you have time to about it, if it’s something that you wanna get in now so you can start very way that’s great. We’ll be sending a few follow-up emails after this webinar with just more details about the Superhuman package but this is what we’re making available at the moment for all of you. So if this is it if this is something you’re interested in please go ahead and take advantage of that. Let’s go ahead now and handle any questions. We’re at about the one hour mark now so I’m happy to stick around for as long as necessary for 10 or 15 minutes and let’s go ahead and dig into some questions if you have a question, it would be great if you could mark it as a question because then I see them.
0:55:24 PA: Hold on I need to clarify. Okay I am just letting some of the questions come in. So keep writing your questions I just wanna see if I can answer multiple questions with kind of one swing. Any questions about whether it’s safe to microdose on a certain substance go to… I’m gonna send you guys to Jim Fadiman’s website. So if you’re wondering if it’s safe to microdose on a certain substance then microdosingpsychedelics.com. I’m going to go to microdosingpsychedelics.com and that will go ahead and answer these questions if you can microdose while you’re in an experience.
0:56:34 PA: These are all good questions.
0:56:47 PA: Okay so I’m gonna first start with set and settings and sort of microdosing threshold. For set and setting, this goes back to what I mentioned before where it’s not really just about microdosing while microdosing and mini-dose makes you more sensitive to surroundings and your environments. So with set and setting with microdosing in terms of your daily life routine, this is where it comes into mindset like the intention that you choose. So ideally you should choose one to two things to focus on when you’re microdosing. Choose one to two things to focus on and really go into them. That’s part of the mindset. So if it’s to help with your depression then start microdosing to help with that and probably see a therapist while you are at it because when we microdose or mini-dose while in therapy it can help to speed up the effects.
0:57:38 PA: The other thing that you might do is set the intention of microdosing to help with social anxiety and that way it’s just something that you continue to be aware of as you’re microdosing. In terms of finding your microdosing threshold, it depends. If you have prior experience in psychedelics. And you probably already have a pretty good sense, if you’ve never done psychedelics before I would say start with like a mini-dose which is usually 20 to 30 micrograms of LSD and usually 0.4 to 0.6 to seven grams of mushrooms. Start with the mini-dose and do it like on a day off. You have no obligations. You’re in a place that you’ve been a million times, you ideally have a guide to be there with you or coach who you can call and make sure that you have that support available. And then you could start low and slowly work your way up to when you find the right amount.
0:58:38 PA: Is there a sweet spot with mushrooms? Usually, it’s best again if you start at 0.5 grams. On a day off, have a coach or a guide with you, ideally. You could start there and then go to 0.1 and slowly work your way up point 0.1 to 0.15 to 0.2. Healing. As far as I know no studies have included schizophrenias. However, anyone who’s asking about the relationship between microdosing and schizophrenia, I interviewed a friend of mine, Anthony Adams, on Third Wave Podcast about how he healed the schizophrenia with MDMA. So that might be a podcast to listen to if you’re interested about the relationship between psychedelics and schizophrenia.
0:59:28 PA: Steven is asking if mushrooms or LSD may be helpful for low-grade PTSD? It looks like in some of the preliminary research that it’s shown to be helpful because it can help dig into the subconscious and the unconscious. But if you do that, I encourage you to really do that with a medical professional. So find someone who understands about psychedelics and healing PTSD and if you’re gonna microdose or minidose to help with that, it would be really useful to have a therapist you can work through with that.
0:59:56 PA: Benjamin asks, if you can tolerate the slightly increased anxiety with microdosing? Does this tend to get better over time? Benjamin can you be a bit more? I’m a little confused. So does the anxiety tend to get better over time? It depends. I think if you’re in a more anxious state, it’s best not to microdose. If you’re already feeling a little anxious and you can’t sleep really well, you have a lot going on, it’s best not to microdose. What I always when I talk with people for example who have bipolar it’s always like don’t microdose in your manic moods only in your depressive moods. So if you’re already in a heightened state, it’s best to avoid it.
1:00:41 PA: Juan asked, where did you start your search for a source online community? Is there a webpage or club? I mean the one we have like with our microdosing course. We have a private community in there, where we have about 400 to 500 people who have microdosed before, and that’s probably the best resource that I can give you is our course, our community, our coaches, those are gonna be the best people to start up with. And we don’t just have the Superhuman offer which is with coaching. We also have the general microdosing course available, which is on our home page. If you go to our home page at thethirdwave.co you can get that general microdosing course as well.
1:01:17 PA: Mervin asks how does one gain access to psychedelic mushrooms? We have some really good resources on our website about how to grow your own mushrooms and how to find psychedelic mushrooms in the wild. If you do that in the wild be very careful because mushrooms, most mushrooms are highly poisonous. If you grow your own mushrooms, there are now places like Denver where mushrooms have been decriminalized as well as Oakland. So those are less risky places. However, as we know, law enforcement psilocybin is basically the least priority. So really the best way is to grow your own mushrooms and it’s quite easy to do.
1:01:56 PA: Daniel, so a lot of you were asking about communities to connect with. Again, what I can… The advice that I can give or the question that I can answer is our online community, our microdosing forum, our microdosing course, all the things that are in there. That’s a really good first resource. In terms of an in-person community, there are communities in Miami, but besides that there’s not a lot that’s up and going so far. There still needs to be a lot more work done on creating more community. This is something that we really wanna do.
1:02:35 PA: Motion asks, I am super nervous because I can’t even smoke weed, can I start at 0.05. You could even start lower than that. You could even start at 0.01. Just take a very very very low amount and see how that impacts you and affects you and then move up from there. It’s better to start low and go slow. Better to start low and go slow.
1:03:00 PA: Peter. That’s a great question. How to balance anecdotal experiences seeing here with peer-reviewed studies? Where do we go from here? I think the best advice that I can give regardless of all the research that we just covered is pay attention to your own experience, pay attention to your own intuition, pay attention to your n equals one experience. Combine microdosing with intention. Set an intention, clarify that intention, set goals, work towards something. As well as complimentary practices: Meditation, yoga, going for walks in the woods, journaling, reflection and just pay attention to your experience. Calibrate the dose level for what you need. And this doesn’t mean that everyone is gonna have a positive experience. But if you actually approach microdosing with a little bit of effort you really clarify your intention, if you really put the time and energy in that’s where a lot of the beneficial impacts are going to be.
1:03:57 PA: Hi Garrett. Do you recommend taking a microdose in the morning to start your day? I always microdose in the morning. If you’re microdosing with LSD the best advice that I can give is to do it in the morning because it lasts for about 12 hours. If you’re microdosing with mushrooms that might be slightly different. Garrett, if you’re getting drowsy as a result of taking psychedelics or microdosing that might be something deeper to look into, a high dose experience could kind of help you understand where that’s coming from. I have had a couple clients who have also reported that. And there’s usually when we start to get closer to trauma or things in our subconscious that are uncomfortable we get drowsy because we wanna sort of shut it off. So that might be something to dig deeper into.
1:04:53 PA: So Chad, thanks for asking that question again, Chad. “Are there any research results surrounding microdosing while on an antidepressant?” As far as I know, dig deeper into the research that I mentioned before, dig deeper into those papers. There might be certain people who responded to those observational studies, that were on an antidepressant. But in terms of what I dug into, I didn’t see much of that relationship. In terms of weaning yourself off before starting, again, I would go to Jim Fadiman’s microdosingpsychedelics.com page to get more details and information about which substances are okay to take while microdoses. If the substance is on there and you wanna start microdosing, again n equals one, you’re your own human Guinea pig, you could try at least, see what happens. However, there are certain antidepressants, certain pharmaceuticals that you should not be on while microdosing. But again, check out Jim Fadiman’s website, microdosingpsychedelics.com, to see those things.
1:06:05 PA: Michelle, I love this question. Microdosing to relieve various elements is one thing, and I’m glad that works. What about microdosing when there aren’t problems to solve, diseases to cure, rather to explore human potential, to be what it is possible to be. This is what we really wanna study at Third Wave, what we’ve done some initial studies on is like what’s the relationship between microdosing and agency? What’s the relationship between microdosing and leadership? What’s the relationship between microdosing and really helping us, again, to become our whole selves? In fact, this is why we named the thing Superhuman, ’cause it gets into the Übermensch, which was Neitzsche’s philosophical idea of this person who was fully becoming. And to me, the introduction of microdoses generally in psychedelics into Western culture is that tipping point, where finally we have this ability, this liberation to fully become who we wanna become. And I see microdosing as being the catalyst to help that happen on a huge cultural level. In terms of research, we don’t have much on it yet, though. But I can report that from a personal perspective, it’s helped me tremendously, as well as many people that I know.
1:07:16 PA: The podcast is with Anthony David Adams. People are asking about the podcast with schizophrenia. Anthony David Adams’ Third Wave podcast. You should be able to find it there.
1:07:39 PA: Victor asks if I could talk about 4-AcO-DMT. 4-AcO-DMT is one of my favorites. It’s a psilocybin analog, meaning it’s very close to psilocybin, but just different. And you can order it from Canada. Technically it’s not legal, however there are labs that make 4-AcO-DMT in Canada, they’re not for human consumption, but do what you wish. But that’s available in Canada. And 1P-LSD is very similar to regular LSD, it’s just a little bit different. When it’s consumed, the body metabolizes it into regular LSD. Again, because it’s such a new substance, there are labs in Canada that produce it and make it. Technically it’s not for human consumption, but people do as they wish, when looking for that as well.
1:08:30 PA: I live in Oakland, I actually live in Oakland. So if you all wanna hang out, I’ll probably do an event in Oakland at some point in the future. I’m looking at Impact Hub, but I do live in Oakland now, in Rockridge, around the Rockridge-Temescal area. So yeah, I just wanted to share that.
1:09:00 PA: Jose. “What’s the rate for tracers in color-blind people?” Yeah, 100%, yeah. So most people who are color-blind and they microdose will see these tracers. So that is something to be mindful of.
1:09:16 PA: Isa asks, “Are you able to function normally in the world while microdosing, like go to work?” If you’re microdosing correctly, yes. But this is why we always say, when you start microdosing, first calibrate. Understand what does 5 micrograms of LSD do to you? What does 10 micrograms of LSD do to you? What does 20 micrograms of LSD do to you? And then after you’ve assessed that and figured out that, then you can build from that point forward. Don’t microdose the first time and go to work, do not do that, ever. First get a sense for how it’s affecting you.
1:09:56 PA: Paul. “Well, what are some podcasts and books you recommend?” That’s a really good question. We have Third Wave podcast, the Psychedelics Today podcast, they published a couple of podcasts on microdosing recently, which were quite good. There’s a book called The Psychedelic Explorer’s Guide by Dr. Jim Fadiman that’s very good. And there’s a book called The Science of Microdosing Psychedelics, by Dr Torsten Passie, which is another great book. And so you start with checking out those: Third Wave podcast; Psychedelics Today; Psychedelic Explorer’s Guide; and The Science of Microdosing Psychedelics.
1:10:30 PA: 0.05 grams of psilocybin, Walter.
1:10:37 PA: Hi Heather, I would assume it’s 100 micrograms. Just assume it’s 100 micrograms. You can send it into a lab in Barcelona and pay like, I think, 70 euros to get a really accurate result. I think there are more and more places like that that will pop up in the near future, but for the time being, so you can just.
1:11:02 PA: Okay. Christian asks, “Can microdosing assist with your levels of empathy and ability to act on that?” I think it can if that’s the intention. If your intention is to become more open, if your intention is to explore why you have walls or where your boundaries are, microdosing can help to accelerate that process of opening up and becoming more empathic. For me, it did a little bit, it made me more socially aware, maybe more in tune with people. I don’t know if it necessarily made me a more empathic human on the whole, though.
1:11:54 PA: Hi Monica, we have our resource on our website for how to grow your own mushrooms. There’s also a number of books on Amazon and a few other things. I know there’s a course being produced that will be out fairly soon, that we’ll also promote on the website, but right now we have a few guides on the website.
1:12:10 PA: Carol, not yet, and we’re putting that list together right now, but we don’t have that list available yet. If you search for integration therapists on Google, you’ll come up with something.
1:12:22 PA: Allie, yeah, we’ll do some Third Wave meetups in the Bay Area, some events. We’ll focus on a few other things internally at the moment, but in the future, we’ll definitely be doing more and more events.
1:12:33 PA: Okay, thank you, Balaam, I appreciate that. I’m gonna wrap up now, it’s 10:15, it’s late at night here. I’ve been up since early this morning. And I appreciate all of you coming here, I appreciate your energy, your attention, your willingness. Like I said, we’ll have the Superhuman option available for the next few days, if you feel like that would be something that’s useful for you and helpful for you. We also have the microdosing course. And best of luck with your microdosing. If you have any questions, please feel free to reach out to us at [email protected]. It was so great to have all of you here tonight. Thank you for joining us.