The Third Wave Podcast

Are Materialist Philosophies Destroying Humanity?

Episode 40

Bernardo Kastrup

Philosopher Bernardo Kastrup joins us this week, to discuss the concepts of idealism and panpsychism, and how they relate to the psychedelic experience. Kastrup explains that a conceptual understanding of idealism is not enough to fully grasp its truth – and that people must experience a non-dual state first-hand to truly comprehend its meaning.

Would you rather read? Click here for this episode’s transcript.

Podcast Highlights

  • Psychedelics allowed Bernardo to take his philosophy from the conceptual to the experiential
  • We discuss the difference between panpsychism (everything is conscious, or has consciousness) and idealism (everything is consciousness, or is in consciousness)
  • Bernardo explains why the pervasive philosophy of ontological materialism could be the end of humanity

Reader Interactions


  1. Bud Valley says

    Great podcast! I highly recommend Bernardo’s book “Why Materialism is Baloney”, which elaborates on idealism in more detail. One of the best books I read in 2017.

  2. Kelly Hite says

    This is a great interview! I love the way you weaved Bernardo Kastrup’s experience and brilliant philosophy into the wider pursuit of Truth through various means including psychedelics. Well done! (I loved his expression “the intellect is the bouncer of the heart” – he’s so articulate)

  3. Mark Abrahams says

    If Bernardo is interested, he could look for Masters & Houston’s book ‘The Varieties of Psychedelic Experience’ (1966) wherein he would see the phenomenology of “personal” data described. There was a hierarchy of levels beginning with the “Sensory,” and then moving into a “Recollective-Analytical” level, which where his “personal” data was encountered. Then there are the “Integral” and “Symbolic” levels which were experienced by smaller numbers of subjects.

    The Recollective-Analytical level is like the lions, or mythic sphinxes past which a psychedelic explorer must pass in order to reach the inner portals of transpersonal experience. One must resolve one’s personal psychodynamic issues first in a sometimes gut-wrenching catharsis and ego-death, before one has been sufficiently purified to enter the Holy-of-Holies. I am reminded of the rather smug Richard Alpert who experienced such a gut-wrenching release when he first met the guru Neem Karolie Baba who used a bit of telepathic siddhi, disclosing Alpert’s private thoughts the night before about his mother who had died following a spleenectomy. The experience of the ‘impossible’ (telepathy) caused Alpert’s belief system to crash.

    Something similar needs to occur on psychedelics in order to accommodate the influx of transpersonal, non-causal (synchronistic), and sometimes parapsychological Psi-function (e.g., telepathy, clairvoyance, etc.).

  4. Melissa says

    Thank you, I related grately to this podcast, I felt connected to the information. It’s great to find others that have had similar experiences. It’s great to hear from others thoughts that myself have been thinking. In my day to day life these conversations can be hard to have with those closest to me (family, co-workers).

    Lots of new learnings as well in the second part of the podcast. Appreciate the time. Thank you again!!

  5. David says

    Consumerism appeals to a larger number of the population. I do believe the psychedelic transformation would produce in any subject a shift towards materialism. I also have the understanding that extreme messages such as moving to Alaska and running far away from society norms can often occur in subjects.

  6. Jonathan says

    This is why philosophy repels so many people. Speak in the abstract from the your perspective and work your way outward. So many logical fallacies I lost track. Apparently the “Me Too” movement is caused by Materialism and not narcissistic power hungry men? Disappointing interview.

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