The Holistic Equation: Strength Training, Mindful Eating, & Mental Well-Being


Episode 215

Lauren Sambataro

In this Psychedelic Podcast episode, co-host Joseph Anew speaks with Holistic Lifestyle & Movement Coach Lauren Sambataro about the intricate web of holistic health,

Their engaging conversation explores topics from trauma's impact on inflammation to the role of psychedelics in fostering creativity. How does trauma, emotional and physical, affect health? Can psychedelics open pathways for personal growth? What is the interplay between strength training, mindful eating, and mental well-being? And what role does purpose play in guiding healthy choices?

Tune in for fresh insights as Joseph and Lauren unravel foundational practices for achieving balance.

Lauren Sambataro:

Lauren Sambataro is a Holistic Lifestyle & Movement Coach, Functional Diagnostic Nutrition Practitioner, and Prep & Integration guide. As a former Broadway performer, movement has always been her love language and true calling. Cultivating a freedom practice, by which we can dialogue with the physical body and access our deep, innate intuition, has been not only her greatest tool for self-healing, but also for moving her clients from pain to purpose to optimization.

Lauren has spent the last 16 years empowering and educating her clients to find the best versions of themselves through radical honesty, positive discernment, and well-supported self-experimentation.

As a Functional Diagnostic Nutrition Practitioner and CHEK Holistic Lifestyle Coach, Lauren supports her clients through the lens of biochemical individuality, curating a unique individualized blueprint to transcend their wellness goals. Merging the subjective and objective, she combines diagnostic testing & quantification practices, chakra body mapping, and deep listening to close the loop on lasting, transformative change. Complete health optimization is not only possible but expected!

She works virtually, both 1-1 and 1-many, with clients all over the country, and co-hosts the health optimization podcast, The Biohacker Babes, to inspire both women and men to take responsibility for and radical ownership of their health.

Podcast Highlights

  • The origins of Lauren’s unique holistic coaching approach.
  • Lauren’s core principles for foundational well-being.
  • The intriguing relationship between trauma and inflammation.
  • Why metabolic health is a fundamental aspect of overall wellness.
  • Building resilience through strength training and cardio.
  • From “free ancestral hacks” to wearables: Lauren’s open-ended approach to biohacking.
  • How Lauren helps clients intuitively reconnect with their bodies.
  • The significance of radical self-honesty in finding the balance between discipline & flexibility.
  • The importance of listening to your inner voice and intuition.
  • Mindful eating and the detrimental effects of processed foods.

These show links may contain affiliate links. Third Wave receives a small percentage of the product price if you purchase through the above affiliate links.

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Podcast Transcript

0:00:00.2 Joseph Anew: Welcome back to The Psychedelic Podcast by Third Wave, where we explore how the safe and responsible use of psychedelic medicines can catalyze individual and collective transformation. This is Joseph Anew and today, I am speaking with Lauren Sambataro, a functional health coach and co-host of the Biohacker Babes Podcast.

0:00:23.0 Lauren Sambataro: Nutrients are huge. And it's not just about taking supplements, it's about how we're eating, the environment in which we're eating. Are we chewing? Can you at least calm the nervous system so you get into a rest and digest state? In that state, we're able to absorb more nutrients. If you can absorb more nutrients from your food, then our DNAs express better. And that travels up the gut brain access, so we have better mental health before we even talk about psychedelics. So it's all of those foundational things that we have to put in place first, because if we're not doing the foundations, the candy isn't really gonna do much for us.

0:01:01.2 Joseph Anew: Welcome to the Psychedelic Podcast by Third Wave. Audio mycelium, connecting you to the luminaries and thought leaders of the psychedelic renaissance. We bring you illuminating conversations with scientists, therapists, entrepreneurs, coaches, doctors and shamanic practitioners, exploring how we can best use psychedelic medicine to accelerate personal healing, peak performance and collective transformation.

0:01:34.0 Joseph Anew: Today's podcast is brought to you by BIOptimizers. Summer, or really any holiday season can be a time where we take a break from the daily grind to enjoy life to its fullest. But all the fun aside, we often find ourselves taking a break from our health routine too. Late nights, irregular eating habits and indulgence can become the norm. But when the vacation season winds down, it's time to start getting back on track with our health. Although it may not be easy, it is essential for our well-being. If you struggle to get back to your health routine after something like a summer vacation, I have a valuable lesson to share. Focus on majors. Prioritize healthy eating, exercise, and above all, quality sleep. Just one interesting fact about sleep to mention. According to a study on the effects of alcohol and sleep, drinking more than two servings of alcohol per day for men and more than just one serving per day for women, can decrease sleep quality by 39.2%, not to mention the effects of indulgent food and late nights out.

0:02:40.3 Joseph Anew: And sleep is the key to your body's rejuvenation and repair process. It controls your hunger, your weight loss hormones. It can boost your energy levels and it can impact countless other vital functions. Good night's rest will improve your well-being much more than almost anything else. Sleep is a major to focus on. That's why I recommend you start taking magnesium daily. But not just any magnesium supplement you find at the store. You have to get Magnesium Breakthrough by BIOptimizers. Magnesium Breakthrough contains seven forms of magnesium designed to help you fall asleep, stay asleep and wake up refreshed. The sleep benefits are truly remarkable. And once your sleep is optimized, you'll find it much easier to tackle all the other major aspects of your health. Trust me, it's a game changer. Listeners of The Psychedelic Podcast, you can now get a special discount on Magnesium Breakthrough by visiting Again, that's Fall asleep faster, stay asleep longer and wake up feeling refreshed with Magnesium Breakthrough.

0:03:52.6 Joseph Anew: Hey listeners, this is Joseph Anew, Director at Third Wave Psychedelic Coaching Institute. Welcome back to The Psychedelic Podcast. In today's episode, we speak to the interplay between strength training, mindful eating and mental, emotional well-being. We talk about how trauma, both physical and emotional can affect our health and the role of purpose in guiding healthier, more sustainable choices. Today we have Lauren Sambataro on the podcast. Lauren is a functional health coach and co-host of the Biohacker Babes podcast. She is also a recent graduate of our certification program at the Psychedelic Coaching Institute, which as you know, if you are an avid listener of this podcast, I have been really trying to get some of our graduate stories and work in the world out to a broader audience.

0:04:46.0 Joseph Anew: Go deeper into this episode with full show notes, transcripts and links to anything that was mentioned in the conversation. Just follow the link in the description or head on over to Once you're there, scroll down to episode 215 with Lauren Sambataro. Also, take a moment to follow The Psychedelic Podcast on your favorite podcast app or like and subscribe on YouTube. This is the easiest way to follow the rapid evolution of psychedelics in our global culture. We have a lot of amazing content and conversations coming up soon that you won't want to miss.

0:05:24.1 Joseph Anew: Today's episode with Lauren is really about health. It's not about just psychedelics. It's about the whole holistic health picture. And in that pursuit, we tap into Lauren's core principles for foundational well-being, the intriguing relationship between trauma and inflammation, why metabolic health is a fundamental aspect of overall wellness, and how we can build resilience through strength training and cardiovascular exercise. We also explore Lauren's intuitive approach to biohacking optimization and psychedelics. Lauren Sambataro is a holistic lifestyle and movement coach. She's a functional diagnostic nutrition practitioner and a prep and integration guide. As a former Broadway performer, movement of the physical body has always been her love language and truest calling.

0:06:15.9 Joseph Anew: Cultivating a freedom practice by which we can dialogue with the physical body and access our deep innate intuition has been not only her greatest tool for her self-healing, but also for moving her clients from pain to purpose to full optimization. Lauren has spent the last 16 years empowering and educating her clients to find the best versions of themselves through radical honesty, positive discernment and well supported self experimentation. As a functional diagnostic nutrition practitioner and CHEK Holistic lifestyle coach, Lauren supports her clients through the lens of biochemical individuality, curating a unique and individualized blueprint to transcend their wellness goals.

0:07:01.4 Joseph Anew: Merging the subjective and the objective, she combines diagnostic testing and quantification practices, chakra body mapping and deep listening to close the loop on lasting transformative change. Complete health optimization is not only possible, but expected. She works virtually with clients from all over the place and co-hosts the Health Optimization Podcast, the Biohacker Babes to inspire both women and men to take responsibility for and radical ownership of their health. As you're listening to this show, if you are feeling called towards our certification program with our next cohort beginning February 7th, 2024, head on over to There you can read up about all the details of our curriculum and experience within the program, and even book a call with us to discuss your unique career objectives. Alright, that's it for now. I hope you enjoy this conversation with Lauren Sambataro.

0:08:04.7 Joseph Anew: Lauren, thank you so much for being here. I'm so excited to chat with you about all the amazing things you do in the health and wellness and psychedelic space. How are you?

0:08:15.2 Lauren Sambataro: Oh, I'm doing so great. Just so happy to see you and thrilled to chat with you. We just align in so many ways. So this is gonna be a super fun conversation.

0:08:23.5 Joseph Anew: We align in so many ways, but scheduling is not one of them, is what I've kind of learned.


0:08:28.4 Lauren Sambataro: We had to have some kind of challenge, right?

0:08:31.6 Joseph Anew: Yeah, yeah.

0:08:32.6 Lauren Sambataro: Had to be some... A little bit of tension.

0:08:34.3 Joseph Anew: Yeah, yeah. Took us quite a few tries to get on the call together here over the last couple of months. And I would really love to kind of begin this conversation Lauren, with just, how did you get into this very unique kind of holistic approach that you've created for yourself? But where did it begin? Where did it start? And how did you become the coach you are today?

0:08:57.5 Lauren Sambataro: Oh, there are a lot of answers to that question. I would say one big piece of my answer is my father is a biological dentist, and he has been practicing holistic dentistry for 40-plus years. And so when I was a child growing up in the '80s and '90s, he was doing a lot of weird biohacker stuff at home and in the house. He was one of the first to adopt red light laser therapy for his clients. He was using homeopathy. He was using PEMF devices. And my sister and I, as children, thought that these were toys. But I think as we grow older and of course, we were just exposed to this stuff without really understanding it, what we grew to understand is that curiosity is such a great leading perspective and we both learned that so much from my dad, like asking questions, being the end of one experiment, not taking no for an answer and continuing to seek, I think really was instilled in me as a young child.

0:09:53.2 Lauren Sambataro: And then also just the work that my dad does in the holistic field. So Weston A. Price was a huge inspiration. So nutrition, good bone and jaw structure, good airways, I mean I could just go off on all the amazing stuff that my dad has taught me. Also, I grew up as a dancer, so movement, I'd say, is my first language. I learned to express myself and communicate to other people in the world through moving my body. And so that was always a really clear pathway where I was getting communication and signals from my physical body about how I felt and how I wanted to interact in the world, and that has really informed a lot of my work today. I find that a lot of the nutrition and health world is very much neck up, especially when we get to psychedelics and talk therapy. We're not looking below the neck. We're not looking at this amazing, huge, profound, powerful vessel that gives us so much information and feedback.

0:10:46.9 Lauren Sambataro: And that's really what leads us back to an intuitive practice, which I find is the best place for healing. And as both of us are CHEK followers, I always remember that Paul Chek says like honesty is the way to radical healing. You have to be radically honest with yourself. And I find that being able to communicate with the body really helps you to be truly honest. So just to circle back, my two big answers are my dad was a profound influence, and also I am a dancer and a mover by nature, and so my body is just an amazing, amazing healing tool for me.

0:11:20.1 Joseph Anew: I love it. Well, the body... I love the connection between the body and honesty. And Paul, we share him as a mentor, and he taught me this thing where you put your fingers together and you ask yourself a question and it's muscle testing like a chiropractor would do, and you could be in the grocery store and say like, "Should I have a banana or an apple?" It's like, "Well, let me ask my soul." And he's got so much there. And I love the way your dad influenced you. And I have a three-year-old and I just can't help but think, he sees me get in the 40 degree water every morning, it's like, what is that in 20 years? What is that gonna do for him? And it's planting those seeds just like they did for you and it's just... It's awesome.

0:12:02.2 Lauren Sambataro: Mm-hmm. There were a lot of seeds. We needed some patience and some good watering over the years, because I moved to New York City to dance, and I very quickly got led to burnout, just over working and not taking care of my body, not listening to my body, and then eventually I circled back, I was like, "Oh right, all those things that my dad was like trickling into my ear." So it does blossom.

0:12:25.4 Joseph Anew: I love that. I love that. And I wanna get into some of the core pieces of your work with clients. I know lifestyle's big and nutrition's big. What would you say is like your first line of defense when someone comes in? What's like your... Yeah. What's that first piece of the puzzle that you have to get right for somebody, given you have so much in the mind and the body to work with?

0:12:49.6 Lauren Sambataro: Probably oversimplified, but sleep. It's like we gotta talk about sleep. And for some people, they say, "My sleep is great," and I say, "Well, are you tracking or testing?" And it's interesting 'cause I know Paul is not a data person, he says we don't need wearables to get in touch with the body, but some people I find are just so out of tune that they need some kind of entrance into this conversation. Not that we absolutely need wearables, but I think sleep is a really foundational place to start, because if you're not sleeping, absolutely nothing else is happening right. If you're not sleeping, your mood probably sucks. Your motivation is down the toilet. You're not gonna want to move. You're not gonna wanna make good food choices. So super simple, but also just profoundly important. But I think also when clients come to me, I really spend a lot of time just listening to them. One, because sometimes people just wanna be heard and that's enough in the healing journey. Sometimes I just sit there for an hour and listen to them and that is complete. But my journey of coaching over the years has really gotten away, and it's interesting to think back.

0:13:57.4 Lauren Sambataro: I think we can all think. Like when we started, oh gosh, I can't believe I did that. Like I should have done this. I've really gotten away from a prescriptive agenda where I used to say all the things that worked for me are definitely the things that you need to do, and we know like everyone is just so profoundly different, like biochemical individuality, but also just desires, and I don't know what your motivations and your goals and your North Star is and where you wanna be, how long do you wanna live? Like all of these things are really important in curating an experience, it is so personal to someone. And just kind of a silly example. I'm working with a client right now that really just does not wanna eat vegetables. It's not on the table for her, but she has incredible energy, incredible motivation, she is living her purpose 100%, and so we're doing all the other things that really make her feel supported and nourished. So just showing up and listening to the client's needs, I think is number one. And I mean gotta check for sleep, and the list is very long, but I'll just pause there.

0:14:53.2 Joseph Anew: Yeah, I love that. And you're kind of looking at sleep too, you mentioned your mood probably sucks and there's so many, so it's almost like no matter what they're coming in with, that's just sort of like... There's a lot of symptoms that could come from not having the proper sleep, and so kind of dialing back and assessing that instead of diving into the issue of complaint perhaps that brought the person in just kind of moving over, moving aside.

0:15:18.3 Lauren Sambataro: Yeah. I think moving upstream as far as possible. Right, like going as close to the root cause as possible, and I don't like to use singular root cause, I think it's always root causes, things rarely act alone. So again, like bringing everything into that holistic comprehensive picture, but yeah, we don't wanna treat symptoms because if you're jumping to psychedelics 'cause your mood is bad, but you're going to bed at 1:00 AM and waking up at a different time every day, how far is that gonna get you?

0:15:48.4 Joseph Anew: Right. Right no, and I think that that's another piece of this. And you've done a lot of work with inflammation, and I know that's a broad term, but I've read a few things that you've created, and so like this inflammatory condition, you've said that trauma can create inflammation and inflammation is kind of what we could call the root of so many issues. What do you mean by that? How does trauma create inflammation?

0:16:15.2 Lauren Sambataro: Yeah. This perhaps could be triggering to people, but mental illness and that it of course exists on a spectrum, mental illness and mental health, everyone can kind of have their different understanding and opinion of that, but it exists on a spectrum. Mental illness, so that would be any dysfunction, degeneration could be mood issues, anxiety, it could be something neurodegenerative, like Alzheimer's, Parkinson's. It's a neuro-inflammatory disorder, which means we have inflammation in the brain, and like you said, I have mentioned before, trauma can create inflammation. People go, Wait, how on earth could it create inflammation? Inflammation is pain in the body. Inflammation is an immune response, so we could have childhood trauma, so adults that are showing like high ACE scores, adverse childhood events, something that happened when they were a child that actually can trigger an immune inflammatory response in the body, and once we get that cascade of inflammation, it can be pretty systemic. So we very quickly can... The immune system turns on, it activates glial cells, microglial cells, we can trigger leaky gut, which then travels up and down, it's a bidirectional highway, the gut brain access, we get leaky brain, and then it's really difficult to recover from that.

0:17:31.5 Lauren Sambataro: So yes, trauma can actually set off the same inflammatory cascade the same way that a gut pathogen could, or a food sensitivity or an injury, like a brain injury. It's all creating the same cascade, and so we really wanna prevent, of course, but do our best to keep a homeostasis in the body and the body has an amazing healing ability. So we're not trying to cut the inflammation, inflammation is a good thing, but we wanna do everything that's in our control to make sure that our bodies are nourished and feel safe and our nervous systems have balance. Really like balance is a great word in general, in so many areas of our life, but I think that throws people. That's something that is emotional, could create inflammation in the body, but we're actually seeing that show up in the research quite often, that emotional trauma can be just as bad as physical trauma.

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0:20:07.2 Joseph Anew: And that word balance, it is a funny word though because I think it's sort of like the follow up would be, what do you mean by that? There's like, you see someone eating a pizza and three beers and they're like balance, so what really is balance for the typical person? You mentioned even like measuring sleep so you have a better North Star as to how sleep is operating. Are there any sort of maybe prerequisites to even using that term? Do you kind of follow?

0:20:42.9 Lauren Sambataro: Absolutely. And I think the answer is completely different for everyone. So it really requires a lot of soul searching and meditation and journaling to figure out what that means to you. Because you could argue that it is you eating pizza, perhaps, that's not my balance. But something I think we both learned from Paul Chek is that figuring out what your dream is is kind of number one, if we want to accomplish any health goals. Like what direction are we aiming our purpose and our... From the moment we get out of bed, like why are we doing the things that we're doing. That's gonna inform which direction we're going in, the pace at which we're going in, and then the boundaries we create, the compromises we make, the choices we make. And so I think we can understand what balance is if we have that North Star or we have that dream that's carved out for ourselves. And it's interesting, I have that on my intake form and it's pretty early on in intake forms and most people can't answer it.

0:21:46.6 Joseph Anew: Yeah. No, it's amazing. And I think that as we start to sort of step into your work with psychedelics I would be curious because I know clients come to you for all sorts of different things. They might come in knowing you do this work, or they might come in with a more broad goal of weight loss or, or health and happiness. Let's say someone comes in like, what is your sort of, if you're gonna utilize psychedelics in microdosing or high dosing, like what is it, what does the path look like into that? And then, and I would add a follow up and that would be to make sure we dive into trauma healing using psychedelics as it relates to neuroinflammation, because it's like, seems like it might be like a chicken or the egg type thing.

0:22:31.0 Lauren Sambataro: Certainly, certainly is. So I love data. I'm a quantification person, so I do a lot of lab testing and I actually put quite a lot of weight into just standard blood chemistry 'cause it's the most validated over time. So your lab work that your physician runs at least annually, hopefully twice a year. But this can actually give us a wonderful perspective and look into how the physiology is working and expressing. So what I can see is how your body's handling stress. I can see your hydration status, I can see nutrient sufficiency or insufficiency. I can see detoxification. I think a lot of functional health coaches jump to all these fancy labs, which are interesting, but over time have not really been validated and we don't know the validity of them. And so, and the blood chemistry actually is quite inexpensive, especially if you're going to a physician getting that covered by insurance.

0:23:28.9 Lauren Sambataro: So I think that's for me such a wonderful baseline because we check so many boxes upfront. So I know from the get-go, how is your physiology handling your everyday choices? Then we bring in the stress piece, we bring in the movement piece because that's foundational to mental health, also to mood, motivation, longevity. We know the benefits of exercise. And then it's really just about discussing like, what do you want to feel more of? What is your interest in psychedelics and why? So we can lay that on top of the physiology. And then it's really just about curating a plan. But I start with the blood chemistry because a lot of people do have nutrient deficiencies, simple things like zinc, B vitamins, magnesium, which I think a lot of people are talking about magnesium now. It's become quite popular. Very popular. And I think actually zinc needs to be more popularized because that's, in my opinion, the number one nutrient for mental health.

0:24:26.4 Lauren Sambataro: And I learned that from another mentor of mine, Brendan Meyer. Nutrients are huge. And it's not just about taking supplements, it's about how we're eating, the environment in which we're eating. Are we chewing? Is our nervous system, is our parasympathetic nervous system turned on when we're sitting. Are we expressing gratitude, whether you are religious or spiritual, can you at least calm the nervous system so you get into a rest and digest state in that state, we're able to absorb more nutrients. If you can absorb more nutrients from your food, then our DNA is expressed better and that travels up the gut brain access. So we have better mental health before we even talk about psychedelics. So it's all of those foundational things that we have to put in place first, because if we're not doing the foundations, the candy isn't really gonna do much for us. And I know it's I'm oversimplifying, it's not just candy. It's quite magical when we look at neuroplasticity and what it's doing to the dendritic spines in our brains. It's quite phenomenal, when we look at the scientific research in the brain. But I find foundations number one absolutely first and not enough people are talking about the nutrition.

0:25:38.1 Joseph Anew: I love that. And I love that you, because I've read a lot lately. Have you read Jo Robinson's Eating on the Wild Side?

0:25:46.9 Lauren Sambataro: I have not. Tell me more.

0:25:48.2 Joseph Anew: And you probably follow like Zach Bush and a lot of these other people where the soils and such are, yeah, you love him. So the soils and there's so much like depletion of the nutrients in the soils. And Jo Robinson's book Eating on the Wild Side talks about how like an apple a couple of hundred years ago had like a hundred times more nutrition in it, which is probably why it was eat at apple a day, keep the doctor away type thing. And now our soils have been so overrun and there's less nutrition available, and we're eating more stressed and we're eating on the go. All these things that you're saying. And so I think that this element of actually putting our body into a state before we eat as a massive foundational piece of the health puzzle, I mean, it might even be more important than ever right now.

0:26:37.8 Joseph Anew: I think so, and I, something that I can't stop talking about as of late is just how important chewing is. Everyone's talking about these weight loss drugs, Ozempic, which are phenomenal for type two diabetes and the byproduct is weight loss. But GLP, which is a peptide that is released in the body when we eat food, is stimulated by chewing. So why are we taking a drug but we're still eating while we're walking, standing in the kitchen, driving the car, or walking down the street. We're missing a foundational practice. We get so much from just slowing down and chewing our food. An interesting fact, I was talking to my dad the other day as a biological dentist, he sees people that have missing teeth all the time, and he's actually starting to see this trend where people with missing teeth are experiencing more cognitive decline perhaps because I don't think it's just because of lack of chewing, but I think it could potentially be a big piece of it.

0:27:36.3 Joseph Anew: Wow. Yeah. And it is amazing to kind of take a step back, you mentioned the Weston A. Price foundation and so much of what we've learned about ancestral diets and human nutrition and, chewing comes from this dentist that traveled around the world and started to notice that I'm not looking to be a nutrition expert, but anytime somewhere on the planet starts to eat a standard American diet, their teeth get all messed up.

0:28:06.2 Joseph Anew: Yep. Yep. That, and babies that are not being breastfed or formula, like if you're not sucking, we may not have a proper jaw structure. We have impaired airways for many reasons because of lack of breastfeeding or chewing as children, but also technology, forward head posture, environmental toxins. There's so many reasons why our airways are shut down. Our teeth are crowded. And so there's a lot, a lot of trauma happening from the neck up that's just cascading down into the body. So like a lot of sources, again of inflammation. And if we have inflammation, then our mental faculties are not gonna be as optimal. Mood is not gonna be optimal. So it doesn't have to be that severe, it doesn't have to be jumping to Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, depression, PTSD. It could just be that you have anxiety and we blame it on so many other things, but can we slow down? Can we chew? Can we eat more real food? Can we go to bed at a regular schedule? Really tough stuff.

0:29:09.3 Joseph Anew: But, it's amazing, Lauren, that you're bringing this up because we're here to talk about psychedelics and how they work and what we do with them. But you went through our certification program and so much of that is about assessing clients and preparing them for a high dose experience or get them on a microdosing protocol. But all of these things are so core. And you mentioned earlier about exercise and you also mentioned that you use kind of the more old school blood panel because it has the most data. And when we look at 150 minutes a week of exercise, it's not about burning calories, it's about mental health. And so all of these pieces of the puzzle that you're kind of pulling together, that's the springboard, that's the thing that's going to bring you into any sort of interaction with psychedelics and catch you on the other side of it so that things are moving and you're kind of getting the most out of those tools. And also it leads to sustainability as well, and not thinking it's just... It was the microdose that that did it.

0:30:16.1 Lauren Sambataro: I suppose we could jump to integration. And so it is all these things that are gonna carry us through a protocol, because what happens the day after you finish dosing, right? People go, I think there's definitely a placebo or a nocebo effect where people could go, oh, I'm not dosing anymore. It's all over. Of course I feel like this. Some people definitely have that afterglow and it's the integration that carries that through. So we want the movement practices, we want the circadian rhythm alignment and sunshine in the morning and the good sleep. And if I may, I would love to just rant about exercise for a moment because...

0:30:50.8 Joseph Anew: Go, go.

0:30:51.2 Lauren Sambataro: It's not just about body composition and muscle and longevity, but there is such a strong connection to mental health. For one exercise, particularly strength training releases BDNF, that's also what we're chasing after with microdosing.

0:31:06.1 Lauren Sambataro: Even macrodosing with psychedelics, particularly psilocybin, they help the release of BDNF, which is basically like fertilizer for your brain. We get neuroplasticity from BDNF. Also with strength training, specifically when we grow muscle tissue that ends up being the best storage site for glucose. Now, there's some scary statistics about metabolic syndrome in this country. People say 88%, I've even heard like over 90% of Americans are metabolically unfit. And that is just according to data that is assessing the categories of metabolic syndrome. So it's blood glucose over 100 triglycerides over 150, waist circumference over, I don't remember the exact number. There's these five categories. And so that 88% is based off of, you have at least one of those five categories, puts you into that 88% of Americans that are metabolically unfit. If you are metabolically unfit, that means that your brain is also not as good as it could be.

0:32:09.0 Lauren Sambataro: I won't say unfit, not as good as it could be. So if we build muscle that ends up being an amazing storage site for glucose, a lot of us are on the spectrum of diabetes. Most of us have pre-diabetes. And that's actually how a lot of my clients come to me. They wanna do glucose coaching, continuous glucose monitors. They're looking at their glucose over a 24 hour period, which is not just about avoiding diabetes, but it's a window into your physiology, much like blood chemistry where we get to see how is your body responding to stress? How is your body responding to hydration or lack of, how is it responding to sleep? And then we get to see food and macros and all the nutrition stuff too. But the glucose is such a fantastic tool for optimizing mental health because if we are moving towards pre-diabetes, we're moving towards insulin resistance.

0:33:00.5 Lauren Sambataro: Now the brain is highly dependent upon glucose. So if we have insulin resistance, our brain is also insulin resistance. People call Alzheimer's type three diabetes. I think that's oversimplified. But there is a component where the insulin is no longer functioning. And so we have this cascade of inflammation. Insulin is not working. And so again, our brains are not gonna be working as well as we want them to be, whether that's poor mood, motivation, anxiety, depression, PTSD, neurodegenerative conditions. So strength training is your greatest asset. Muscle is expensive, it's hard to build, but it will keep your mind sharp, it will keep your mood excellent. It will keep your energy high and a lot of other things. Many, many other things.

0:33:45.4 Joseph Anew: So that, it's a great point, Lauren. So if somebody is right now they're not exercising and they're like, okay Lauren, I got two hours a week, you would say all in on strength training, you wouldn't say do cardio for half the time, or is it that important or would it be more of a mixed modal type approach?

0:34:06.0 Lauren Sambataro: I would prioritize the strength training because if you're lifting heavy enough, you're gonna get endurance. You're gonna get cardio in there as well. And I do think there's a lot of benefit to zone 2. If you listen to Peter Attia, I think the research is pretty compelling. But if you're, again, if you're lifting heavy enough to really break down muscle tissue and get good muscle protein synthesis, and of course you need to pull in amino acids and dietary protein to support that to make it worth it. But if you're lifting heavy enough, you're most likely getting your heart rate up so you are getting the best of both worlds. And if time is limited, yes, I would definitely choose strength training.

0:34:41.3 Joseph Anew: And what would you say that some of the benefits are of a cardiovascular approach? You mentioned zone 2 cardio, like where does that play in, how would you utilize that?

0:34:53.4 Lauren Sambataro: Well, I'll just tell you, I'm not a fan of endurance training myself, so I'm not gonna go off about it the way I do strength training. But I think it's just beneficial for humans to have some endurance in our lives. Ancestrally, we needed to be able to maintain a certain heart rate zone to survive. And so I think that can translate to the modern day world. And sometimes I just see that in running to the subway because I'm late. But I think I definitely feel more resilient when I have that in my life. And I think everyone probably has an experience where they're like, oh man, I wish I did a little bit more cardio. These stairs wouldn't be so hard. This group hike wouldn't be so hard. This heat wouldn't be so detrimental. It's all about rising to the occasion and we get stronger through stress. So we want these small doses of stress, we call it hormesis, to make us stronger. So we could come back to the conversation of balance and what that means to you. But are you doing small doses of hard things in your life to get stronger and more resilient? That's how we grow, adapt, and survive and thrive. I'll add that on at the end and thrive.

0:35:57.8 Joseph Anew: Well now we have to find those things. It's like the world is getting, you mentioned iPads and stuff earlier with kids and it's like the world is getting easy. And so it's like we have to actually seek out these sort of opportunities to actually stress our bodies and what happens if I am not under enough stress? Like what happens?

0:36:24.8 Lauren Sambataro: Failure to launch. No failure to adapt. I mean, the human species evolved to be what it is because of stressful environment, stressful occasions, the body grows through adaptation. So I don't know, I suppose we could sit here and debate like, what happens if person A does nothing and doesn't ever do anything hard versus person B does all the hard things. Again, it comes back to balance. And how is your physiology responding to it. Stress is an interesting conversation because perception of stress is often worse than whatever measurable stress we could come up with on data wearables or lab tests. Perception of stress I think can actually kill someone. So it really depends on how you're perceiving these hard things. What's going up in your brain, your mental emotional space, your spiritual space, how are you sleeping at night? Like what are your subconscious thoughts digesting. So yeah, I think that's a complex conversation. Like what happens if we don't do hard things?

0:37:35.0 Joseph Anew: But that well, it raises a really interesting point, 'cause basically what you're saying is you have to find exercise you enjoy. The perception...

0:37:43.4 Lauren Sambataro: Definitely a more sustainable if you do, I'm not a fan of doing things that I don't like.

0:37:48.6 Joseph Anew: I'm just thinking of people that head into the gym and they're on the treadmill watching Dr. Phil or something, and just putting in the time and it's like, wow, so that perception of stress you're talking about is... It seems like maybe there's some mixed messages going on there. It's like the body is, you're trying to do this thing for health, but if you're fighting against yourself, so there's this, maybe that person would be better off hiking the mountain or sailing a little boat or... So I think there's a certain freedom there, and maybe it's a little bit unrelated, but I know you also have done work with this moving clients in the direction of a more creative orientation. What is that about? What does that mean?

0:38:37.3 Lauren Sambataro: That has been a huge part of my healing journey, so I'll just give you a quick run down of my evolution into adulthood, I was a very creative child, was crawling out of my crib at eight months. My parents were like, Oh my gosh. She's a monkey. This is dangerous, but I just wanted to move. I was crawling over all around everything, exploring, moving, putting on shows. I ended up being a dancer because that was my expression, super creative. And then I met the modern world and I think I felt very black and white, very masculine, a lot of it shut me down and made me feel like I had to reserve myself and so there was a loss of creativity through young adulthood. And it's actually through psychedelics that I rediscovered this creative orientation where joy was a huge piece of that. Curiosity was a piece. There's also a huge piece of not giving a fuck, excuse my language. It's not that I don't care, it's that I care so much about myself and the way that my body wants to express that it's like, this is how I'm gonna live. And I say that that was a huge piece of my healing journey because I didn't feel safe in my body when I wasn't expressing the way that I wanted to express.

0:40:00.9 Lauren Sambataro: I also think there's a piece of creativity that helps us solve problems in the world, a lot of people are very solution-oriented, very A to B, very linear, and this is something that we discussed in the third way of course. Can we expand those boundaries and be more creative? Can we find a different route from A to B. And I think within that different path and psychedelics can help you take that other path, it's like creating a new snow track, we get to experience more joy and freedom, and sovereignty in our body and lightness and safety, and your nervous system feels more balanced. So I think creativity means something different to perhaps everyone. For a long time I was like, I'm not creative, I'm definitely not creative. I just got a little bit lost. And so I'm so grateful to the medicines that were able to show me back to my true self and really kind of lighten the load.

0:41:00.8 Joseph Anew: Yeah, yeah. So Lauren what did that look like? Where were you at in life when you first decided to step into medicines, and then what medicines did you decide to step into?

0:41:13.1 Lauren Sambataro: Psilocybin was my first friend. [laughter] And that's because I had a good friend that was learning all of that and he's super curious, and he taught me a lot, and I was trying to write an e-book and I've always hated writing, I always felt like, Oh God, I'm just so bad at this. I just had a really rigid narrative around producing material on paper, but I wanted to write an e-book. And I actually sat at this desk that's right next to me, and I did some microdosing and I was like, Wow, I wrote my ebook. And so it was such a silly little example.

0:41:52.7 Joseph Anew: In 15 minutes. [laughter]

0:41:52.8 Lauren Sambataro: In five seconds, it was done. And this was before ChatGPT. Okay, I wrote the book myself. And so it's not that it told me what to write, but it started to shed this narrative of, I can't do that, that's not me. Potentially imposter syndrome, it allowed me to break those walls into this creative orientation where anything was possible, I got out of my own way, and that's actually why I'm a biohacker, why I love biohacking, it helps me to get out of my own way so that I can show up in this world and be my purpose, live my purpose, fulfill my dream and be the best human that I am meant to be. It helps me get out of my way.

0:42:39.5 Joseph Anew: And so when you say biohacking, what does that look like? What are your favorite biohacks? What more can you say on that?

0:42:48.3 Lauren Sambataro: My favorite biohacks are the free ones, so it's really what we think of as ancestral living. Some people would argue that's not a biohack, some people believe biohacking is only technology, I think that biohacking is more perspective, so it's a curiosity, it's end of one experimentation, it's testing things and listening to the feedback from your body to see what works best for you. There's not a prescription and there's not a one-size-fits-all for everyone, so we have to run these little experiments and then most importantly, listen to what the body is telling us to know which way do we go. Do we keep going in this direction? Do we do more of this? But to bring that back, just the free ancestral hacks, morning sunshine to set your circadian rhythm profoundly beneficial for increasing energy, mood, motivation, all of these things that we talked about in the category of psychedelics.

0:43:36.9 Lauren Sambataro: Movement. I actually paired my sunshine with my movement in the morning, it is my coffee. I also love coffee, but sunshine and movement, it just sets me right for the day. And I think the other biohacking and I have devices 'cause there's some cool technology out there, and I think we deserve to honor that and utilize it to our best advantage, but in the realm of data wearables, I've learned quite a lot from my continuous glucose monitor about how my body's responding, just to everything in the world, not just food and sleep tracking, I've learned an enormous amount because I'm sleeping and I don't always know what's happening, so that has been extremely enlightening and informative. So it's really just a way to gather information and to continue to be curious and figure out and of one, what is best for me? Because what I did 20 years ago, as I was trying to do what everyone else was doing, and it was not working, I was burnt out. I did not have optimal body composition for my body, no energy, really just all around all the bad things, and I had to start doing me. And biohacking was my way to figure out what that was.

0:44:50.9 Joseph Anew: Yeah, I love that. And you have podcast, Biohacking Babes.

0:44:54.7 Lauren Sambataro: Yeah, Biohacker Babes. I run it with my sister, who is also a nutrition practitioner, and obviously, I grew up with my dad. So he was the inspiration for that. We call him the OG biohacker, and our mission really is just to be curious and to empower others to do the same.

0:45:11.3 Joseph Anew: And I love it, and really biohacking, right? Your dad and Weston A Price. It's like looking at this modern world and saying, how is this a mismatch for my DNA. I don't have to get some exposure because I don't live outside, but my DNA would probably like that. And because you mentioned coffee, it's funny. So I'm a big... I have espresso, I drink too much coffee. But my second son was just born three weeks ago.

0:45:39.6 Lauren Sambataro: Congratulations.

0:45:40.7 Joseph Anew: Thank you so much.

0:45:40.8 Lauren Sambataro: Coffee is needed.

0:45:41.4 Joseph Anew: I myself, as a fellow biohacker have talked a lot about, and I think Andrew Huberman and a lot of people are talking about it, it's like not roll on a bed and have a coffee. And letting your body naturally find its rhythm without jolting it into 50 then my second son was born. And I'm like, No, no, [laughter] it's just like, Come on. It's just that would be torture to not sleep and not have coffee, and so there was this whole thing, and it's just I guess I don't really have an end game with this, except for the fact that there's... You can then biohack it. So what I do now is if I just have to, because I'm otherwise gonna be Frankenstein, you just have to work out that day, or just like...

0:46:36.9 Lauren Sambataro: You gotta use it.

0:46:38.3 Joseph Anew: Yeah, you have to immediately, like I said before noon is if I do it before 6:00 I have to work out for a noon, otherwise I'm gonna have this huge crash. So I think biohacking too is understanding both what you should be doing and then how to undo things you do that are out of alignment with how our DNA wants to operate in the world.

0:46:57.7 Lauren Sambataro: Yeah. It's playing with the variables. You get to be the DJ of your physiology. We have all these different dials, and so depending on the choice of the day, and for you right now, and this is your phase of life that you're in as a parent, a new parent, you're gonna have some dials that are going in different directions than usual, so yes, how do we... Here comes balance again, how do we create balance? Because that's the priority for this phase of life.

0:47:25.5 Joseph Anew: Right. And yeah, and I think so many people, especially when they step into biohacking, it's like... They hear the podcast, I have to get on a second, then it becomes a thing instead of... It's just like we talked about with enjoyment and finding exercise you like, it's like how do you balance that? That whole, I know what my DNA needs, but I'm also a human being with feelings and emotions and shit to do. [laughter]

0:47:54.7 Lauren Sambataro: Yeah, I think that's why I think the body is such an amazing vessel, we have to listen to it. That is, if I create the rules of biohacking, it's be curious, be skeptical, but learn to listen actually. Do you know The Four Agreements.

0:48:08.1 Joseph Anew: Mm-hmm.

0:48:11.3 Lauren Sambataro: I use this all the time with my Health Coaching, The Four Agreements applied to everything in health, fitness and nutrition. Don't make assumptions. We can make assumptions that something else that worked for somebody else is gonna work for us, be skeptical, so if you're listening to Andrew Huberman, you we re listening to all these amazing people out there, don't take their word for it, try it for yourself. And then we listen to the body to see what kind of feedback it's giving you.

0:48:39.5 Lauren Sambataro: Your body is an amazing source of information and it is just so overlooked, so yes, if you're listening to all these podcasts and they're all saying you must go outside and get sunshine within 30 minutes of waking or you're a terrible person. Listen, that doesn't fit for some people, it doesn't. It brings me a lot of joy and it fits into my lifestyle of... Curated a lifestyle where that fits really nicely, it doesn't mean that your health is ruined because of it. Where else can you fit some light into your day, it's really just about balancing indoor and outdoor light, balancing red light and blue light. Who knew the balance was gonna be such themes podcast, but there's other ways we can do that. So you make it work for you and don't do it if it's making you miserable, and certainly don't do it just because someone else said that you should do it. Test it. Listen to your body and make your own decision.

0:49:32.7 Joseph Anew: Right, and I think that listening to your body, and I think that would be also very relevant to people stepping into the psychedelic space is just getting this using perhaps lifestyle free medicine, whatever you call it, bio-hacks to attune that sensitivity to what your body is telling you as preparation for a high dose or even a microdose experience.

0:50:00.0 Lauren Sambataro: Yeah, I'm such a... I suppose all the people and all the podcasts are talking about how you have to have a morning practice, and I just said, Screw that, but I do think a morning practice is important just to set the tone for the day, especially if you're gonna start embarking on a microdosing protocol, because it's really about that container, which the medicine then fits in, but it's your structure, your consistency, your flow, that's really gonna produce the results. The medicine then just reveals to you what you need to know, but you have to have that structure, and I find the morning routine is an amazing way to set that tone, but we could say if that doesn't work for you, a lot of people say You have to dose in the morning, but there's plenty of strains that work really well in the evening or the afternoon, or maybe it's a nighttime practice around the dosing. So this is another thing. Don't do it in the morning just because you heard that we have to do it in the morning, we can use our creativity, creative orientation and find something that really works for us. And yes, you can dose at night time, if that works for you.

0:51:02.2 Joseph Anew: I've never heard someone say that before.

0:51:05.2 Lauren Sambataro: It's kind of endless possibilities. I don't know that it works for everyone. In fact, I think it definitely does not work for everyone, but I've seen it work really well for a good handful of people that I've worked with, and I think it depends on the strain and the dosing and the protocol also, there's not just two protocols, it not just Stamets and Fadiman, we can make our own protocols too. We could trust yourselves enough to potentially make our own protocol, and there are others out there, but those are the two popular ones.

0:51:35.4 Joseph Anew: Yeah, what strains do you think works better or which are best for evening microdosing?

0:51:43.2 Lauren Sambataro: I actually don't know that off the top of my head, and I work with proprietary blends of a couple different strains, so I don't know the exact strains.

0:51:51.9 Joseph Anew: Yeah. But yeah, it's cool though. It's a good freedom. I think everyone's always worried about messing with my sleep, but breaking outside the box seems to be a theme of your work, whether it's exercise or nutrition, or biohacking or psychedelics.

0:52:10.3 Lauren Sambataro: Potentially. I think the biggest takeaway that I would want people to have is that we just... We have to answer our own questions, continue to be curious and stop doing things because other people told you to do them, it is incredibly valuable to have mentors and to do your research and have education, but the end of the day, you have to digest all of that information, it's gotta go through your soul and your intuition, and then you get to decide what makes sense for you. What makes sense, rationally, mentally, emotionally, but also what feels right in your body.

0:52:45.8 Joseph Anew: Yeah, and would you say that most people are pretty disconnected from that? What does that look like when someone comes in? The average person, I feel like these days is pretty disconnected, so how do you sort of wean them into listening to their body, they're like, I'm hungry for that, for this.

0:53:08.4 Lauren Sambataro: There's so many ways into this and it depends on the conversation of the day, if we're talking about movement or talking about nutrition. Hunger is a good one, getting to know the difference between satiety, cravings, hunger, fullness, or so many shades, so many colors. But doing some intuitive practices, and it's a practice 'cause it's a muscle just like showing up at the gym, we have to practice intuition because yes, I think a lot of people are disconnected from it because we live in a more masculine framework world is are more black and white. Yes, no, right, wrong. And I think that creative orientation allows us to break out of that and say like, Oh, I can think for myself, and then if we can think for ourself, we can say, I'll just give you an example. A lot of women that I work with are very attached to numbers when it comes to exercise, I have to walk this many steps today, I have to burn many calories. What does that even mean in the body, what does it feel like to walk that many steps or to burn that many calories? Can we get rid of the number goal, and this is just an example, but can we trust our body.

0:54:20.8 Lauren Sambataro: This is something that I practice when I go for a walk in the morning. I know the mile marker. I know the two-mile marker, I let my body decide when I'm gonna turn around, and I used to go like I gotta get to the mile mark before I can even think about turning around, and now I go, the second that I feel that urge to go turn around, I turn around and by doing that, by hearing that call and honoring it immediately, we start to strengthen our intuition, because our body that has not been listened to for so long goes, Oh, I can speak. You're gonna listen to me. And so the more that you listen to it and honor it, the more it speaks up, so the voice ends up being really, really quiet and small in the beginning, but the more we practice that, and it could be another example, like picking out your clothes in the morning, some people have a really systematic fashion, I'm gonna wear this color on this day, or it could be a Mark Zuckerberg and just wear the same thing every single day. What if you open your closet, close your eyes and ask yourself what you wanna wear that day, and then the second that your intuition tells you, you pick it out and you put it on and you trust that.

0:55:27.4 Lauren Sambataro: That tells your body, I trust you. Tell your intuition, we've got this, and then you're gonna start getting flooded with these signals all the time, where if you're in a situation that doesn't feel good to your body, you're gonna go, I'm out because I'm not gonna compromise on this anymore, and I think that's really important. We don't have a lot of boundaries because our body is not talking to us, I think is a big piece of that, so once the body starts talking, it's almost impossible to not honor your needs, wishes, and wants. I have no idea if I answered the question that you asked.

0:56:02.1 Joseph Anew: It's great. What kind of came up for me too is like, I'm imagining myself walking into my closet, like with a blindfold on. And I'm like, all right, now I got backwards corduroys on and one of my wife's like shirts, she sleeps in. [laughter]

0:56:20.4 Lauren Sambataro: I love it, I love it.

0:56:21.6 Joseph Anew: But there's this like, wow, because I think a lot of what keeps us stuck is perception of other people's perception. So what would happen if I hated the outfit or if it made me look ridiculous and I wore it anyway? So, I once read there's this psychiatrist actually in New York and he had people, do embarrassing things on purpose to break out of that, like we talked about doing stressful things, doing things that are outside our comfort zone to show them that like it's all inside of you. No one actually cares if you have corduroys and a sleeping t-shirt on. So there's something on the other side too. There's like listening to your intuition. And then as you said earlier, like not giving an F about what's happening, this is the way I have to live and I have to kind of hold that line.

0:57:12.0 Lauren Sambataro: Yeah. Because if you care about yourself the most. It's not giving an enough, it's caring about you more, your body feels safe. And that's a huge thing that comes up with metabolic health coaching, just with health coaching, wellness coaching in general, there's so much dysfunction and so much illness because our bodies don't feel safe. And so if we can trust our bodies and care more about us than what other people think, we create safety. And that is like such a primal ancestral need to survive and thrive in this world. We have to feel safe. If we don't feel safe, our hormones get out of balance. We could gain weight or maybe even lose excessive weight, mental health dysfunction, all kinds of toxicities or I mean, the list goes on and on and on. Illness potentially is a downstream effect of not feeling safe in the body. So we could argue that intuition has got to be pretty strong.

0:58:08.8 Joseph Anew: Yeah, no, absolutely. Gosh. And you know what's funny, Lauren is, so I do the cold every morning. I've got the plunge in my garage. I keep it at 40 degrees because any lower it's, the water's moving like a jacuzzi. It's no joke in that thing. When you were telling the story about walking to the telephone pole or, two days a week, I forced myself to sit there for five plus minutes and then all the other days, like it's totally what you're talking about. Totally. Is it a 10 second day? Is it a 60 second day? There's no, it's totally. So I kind of, that's how I balance it. What's that word again is like, I hold the line twice a week and the other days I'm kind of more free flowing so that I ensure I'm like not declining over time. I'm not like being too easy on myself.

0:59:04.9 Lauren Sambataro: I love that you said that. I think that's such an amazing tool holding the line because for some people they really do need to be pushed. I'm sharing that I can kind of hang back because I think I've done a lot of the hard work and I've pushed myself so much that at this point it's like, Oh, softening around the edges is what is really valuable to me. But for some people it's like, yeah, what is the threshold of holding the line or doing more hard things because you tend to err on the side of not enough. Again, it's that radical honesty. If we can be radically honest and listen to our body, you're probably going to know what the answer is, right? We hire health coaches and personal trainers and life coaches and mentors to hold us accountable and give us some guidance and to educate us. But at the end of the day, like our bodies know what we need.

0:59:54.5 Lauren Sambataro: So if you're not being honest with yourself, yeah, you may not hold the line. You may turn back before you need to. It's just about being honest.

1:00:04.4 Joseph Anew: Gosh. And isn't that sort of, I think a lot of times people that step into psychedelic work, it's like, they're told what they already knew, but now it's got more momentum. It's packing a stronger punch. It's more clear, it's more obvious, it's more connected to the limiting life they're living or, whatever the case may be. And so there's that like listening and being honest with yourself. I love that as a sort of takeaway is just getting really honest, even before you step into psychedelics, just where are your deficits? Do you need to be easy on yourself? Are you addicted to performance or are you not performing well enough? Are you not putting in the work and you need something to help you hold the line? And I think like you talked about a spectrum earlier of I think you're referring to illness, but it seems like there's a spectrum there. And then that spectrum should guide your decisions, your diet, how strict.

1:01:00.5 Joseph Anew: Because I think we, as you said, like we hear these diets, we hear the new thing we need to do. And it's like, now it's gotta be every day just like this. And it's, wow, you might be rehearsing the same pattern. That's the problem in a healthy activity.

1:01:16.0 Lauren Sambataro: Yeah. And that could serve you for X period of time. That's part of it. We want to show up to an exercise program. And it's gonna maybe potentially suck for a little bit, but at some point the body is going to adapt. And once you've achieved X goal, do you keep doing that? Some people go, Oh, well, I have to do that because that's the only reason that I got here. But our bodies are dynamic. They're always changing, always rerouting. So it's in the moment, maybe, what do I need today? It's probably going to be different than yesterday. Definitely going to be different than a year ago. Definitely going to be different than 10 years ago. Like that growth is beautiful. So I think just another ancillary thing with psychedelics, I think, like really getting to know true self, because I think we do have multiplicity of mind.

1:02:07.7 Lauren Sambataro: This is this concept that Richard Schwartz talks about in Internal Family Systems, really getting to know all the voices in our head, which I think create a lot of conflict, which could lead to anxiety or mood. Like a lot of the reasons why people come to psychedelics. Sometimes it's just internal conflict because you could have five-year-old self arguing with present day self. And no wonder you can't make a decision. No wonder you can't like shut off your mind and go to sleep. So really getting to know present day and then acknowledging all those stages of your your life to help inform just what's going on in your brain. And that, it can be really helpful just to do a meditation and some brain dumping journaling before you start the psychedelics, because then we have like more information to work with. It's a little bit of a right turn, but yeah, we have to constantly be reassessing.

1:03:00.3 Joseph Anew: And I think that's so damn important. It's funny when I was doing... I worked with somebody to do some some inner child work, and it was so wild because during that time, all I wanted to eat was cheese and crackers, which is literally...

1:03:17.5 Lauren Sambataro: Interesting...

1:03:17.9 Joseph Anew: All I ate as a five to seven-year-old. It was like my favorite thing in the world. And so if I had taken my like, I don't eat cheese and crackers because I eat healthy and crackers are crappy for you. Like, do you know that probably contributed to me? Getting through that phase of healing or of optimization or whatever it is. And so there's this like there's so much interconnectedness and all of these beliefs and the to do list and the biohacks. It's like sometimes if the intention is wrong, when you're doing work, perhaps with psychedelics, it's like, wow, it's like sometimes we have to violate some of these things just to kind of get the mind and body to heal and move in the direction that you're pushing it in, in the work you're doing over here.

1:04:09.6 Lauren Sambataro: I couldn't agree more. And I think as a performer, I think what you just explained, like embodying your younger self, like fully getting into that costume and environment and even eating the snacks that you used to eat was probably immensely helpful just to get to know the emotions that maybe you hadn't fully explored. There could be probably was a lot that was maybe suppressed or unheard. And so that's an interesting exercise to kinda like be an actor in your own life, like fully embody different ages of self so you can understand and let your body speak to you, let all the voices come up, let all the emotions express. Because I think we age very quickly, life happens very quickly and we could be missing these little moments.

1:04:53.0 Lauren Sambataro: So I think that's just... The cheese and crackers is just really awesome. So maybe that's good advice for people if we want to get to know these different parts of self. Can you truly put yourself in that environment again, just to understand, like for the sake of curiosity and understanding?

1:05:09.5 Joseph Anew: Right, right. And it's like, can you listen to the voice no matter what it says? If your diet plan says that you should have eggs and you want cheese and crackers, do you have the courage to step into that?

1:05:26.3 Lauren Sambataro: Yeah, I mean, that's a whole other thing. I mean, just people go, oh, my intuition is telling me I should eat chicken wings. I'm like, okay, let's talk about this. [laughter] Maybe chicken wings isn't a good example. Potato chips, let's talk about potato chips because processed food hijacks the brain. We know this. And so is that true intuition or is that the food industry that has taken over the brain chemicals and are not allowing you to make good decisions? So I think we also have to kind of sort through that noise. I don't think that we can develop or talk to our intuition if we're eating processed food. So we've got to clear that first. We have to eat real food because real food actually gives us good communication, good information to our DNA so that we can express and then have a clear brain to make good choices. So yeah, if your intuition is telling you to eat crackers and whatever, we can step back.

1:06:21.1 Joseph Anew: Yeah. If you can connect, as you said, I'm so glad you mentioned it, Lauren, is like, well, the slate has to be... That's why you do the diet work with you first so that like when you randomly want cheesy crackers, it's not like, it's definitely something that's like, oh, that's notable. But if like, if we don't set that stage, you mentioned like the processed food messes up the brain. And this has been on my mind a lot because I go to the grocery store and we shop at natural grocers and things are almost all organic and it's pretty good. But it's still like they're sneaking junk. Like there's so much health food now that's still like in a tube, in a package. It's got some like crummy ingredients. So how does that, what more can you say about processed food and then specifically stuff that's like sneaking into the health food section that like you should maybe like be a little bit cautious or skeptical of, as you said earlier?

1:07:20.1 Lauren Sambataro: Yeah, I think we definitely have to be skeptical just about the food industry because they're on a mission to make money. And they make money by making foods addictive and toxic. So I think just understanding that is step one. Step two is just doing the best you can as a consumer. Obviously like there's a spectrum and there potentially could be health food and a wrapper. But in general, we want to avoid things that are in packages and boxes and wrappers and any kind of packaging. The more packaging there is, the less chance it's in its natural state. So I'm not saying I never eat anything out of a box or a package. I certainly do. But checking ingredients, minimal ingredients, eating as close to the land as possible. And it's not possible for all people. But I think if we can move more towards going to farmers markets, getting to our local farms, cooking as much as possible without stressing yourself out. And again, it could be a perception of stress.

1:08:16.9 Lauren Sambataro: Is there something that you can do to make cooking or just preparing, just throwing stuff together that's real food more enjoyable for yourself. But less is more. Minimal is definitely good when it comes to food. And just know that if you feel like you can't stop buying that one food, it's probably that food industry has gotcha.

1:08:39.9 Joseph Anew: You are addicted. You are...

1:08:40.0 Lauren Sambataro: Yeah, maybe just one at a time, take a step back. So my fiance will not like that I shared this, but he loves potato chips. [laughter] And he confessed last week, he was like, I have an addiction to potato chips. I cannot stop. He was like, what did the food industry do to me? So just acknowledging that is step one. And then it's like, okay, it's probably gonna take some time to unwind that. Like most things in life, like unwinding trauma, unwinding narratives. We have to unwind this chemical hijacking from food. So another piece of biohacking or health coaching that I haven't mentioned is like compassion for self is really important. Like know that this stuff is hard and it takes some patience. Like be kind to yourself along the way. It's not gonna happen overnight.

1:09:34.2 Joseph Anew: Right, and it's like, that awareness that, your fiance is addicted to chips, it's I love the perspective you took there because he's sort of like, you didn't say he quit chips. You just said he acknowledged being addicted for you. And it sounds like him is like, before I quit this, what is it holding up? [laughter]

1:09:56.9 Lauren Sambataro: Yeah.

1:09:57.5 Joseph Anew: Like am I gonna kick a stool out of my throat? Like, kick the leg out from under me and my trauma or my, other stuff. And I think that's...

1:10:06.9 Lauren Sambataro: Yeah it's good to have some dialogue first before you just go cold turkey.

1:10:10.6 Joseph Anew: Yeah, goodness, goodness. Well, well, congrats on the engagement. I know you had a...

1:10:16.4 Lauren Sambataro: Thank you.

1:10:17.7 Joseph Anew: A thing today, a shoot for the engagement and it's amazing.

1:10:20.0 Lauren Sambataro: Yeah and the pouring down rain.

1:10:23.3 Joseph Anew: Oh my, well, send some of that rain down here. It's like a hundred degrees and dry as hell in Austin Texas.

1:10:31.7 Lauren Sambataro: There is not a lot of balance in the environment right now, is there? In the weather patterns, unfortunately. So maybe we could just energetically send some balance to the planet.

1:10:44.3 Joseph Anew: Yeah, believe me, I think it needs it, not just in the weather patterns. And that's hopefully something that psychedelics can kind of help with as we hope, right? This third wave of psychedelics and get people doing their personal healing. And once you do your personal healing, you're more attached to the collective in what the hell is going on. And so I think that that's, especially mushrooms. It's like there's hope that like Mother Earth can heal herself in some ways through the intentional and responsible use of these medicines, whether it's microdosing or high dosing. But I think that's a big part of it.

1:11:17.0 Lauren Sambataro: Yeah, it really is so beautiful to look at mushrooms in nature. Like they show up to heal. They show up when there's like dead tissue, matter, injury. It's like, wow, if we could all just accept that and let it come infuse in our lives and let it show us the way. I think it can be really profound. So we're gonna keep spreading the good word and educating as we do.

1:11:45.4 Joseph Anew: Yeah, yeah, Lauren. And there's so much that we could go on all day about this, but there's so much to learn from that, right? Like mushrooms show up, algae, chlorella, and your spirulina show up when there's junk in the water. And, why? And this goes back to our stress conversation. Why? And that has restricted water flow is the best, is the healthiest, is the lowest in junk, is the most... Has the most resveratrol and, all of this stuff. And so there's so many lessons from nature that maybe, we can start to connect with starting with getting up and watching the sun in the morning.

1:12:19.0 Lauren Sambataro: Yes, if it fits into your lifestyle.

1:12:24.7 Joseph Anew: If it, if it fits. All right, Lauren, well, hey, where can people find you for coaching and all the work you do?

1:12:32.4 Lauren Sambataro: Yes, my website is I'm on Instagram mostly, @lauren_sambataro, and I have my podcast with my sister Renee Belz, the Biohacker Babes, and we have new episodes every Monday, which sometimes just two of us, we rotate a lot of guests and then I'm available for one-on-one coaching and I kind of cover the spectrum of metabolic health, mental health, a lot of that is glucose and nutrition coaching, exercise. My dad the other day told me that I'm a generalist and I said, thank you. Because I think it really does require looking at all of these things in a holistic and comprehensive approach.

1:13:13.2 Joseph Anew: Yeah, I think...

1:13:13.3 Lauren Sambataro: Do a lot of things.

1:13:14.9 Joseph Anew: And a generalist, but still knowing the interconnectedness is, really what I feel you're doing here is seeing the connections between everything and not sort of, yeah, like, like going all in on one thing, but seeing how everything is kind of interconnected. And I think that's why people are heading your way for coaching and support that have probably also tried so many other things and they didn't work because maybe they just weren't right. They weren't dropped onto the right set and setting, if you will.

1:13:44.7 Lauren Sambataro: Yeah, I just want to say really quick. Well, one, my dad meant that as a compliment and he really meant it in the best way, but also I think there's so many experts out there and we really need them, but a lot of medicine is very isolated. Things exist in silos and I think health is just unbelievably interconnected, whether we're doing psychedelics or movement or sunshine, all the things you just mentioned, they all affect one another, even your teeth and your oral health and your airways, the work that my dad is doing. We can't ignore that. So I find if we're just trying to focus on one thing, we're not going to get the results that we want. So we really have to take that 30,000 foot view and look at the entire spectrum of mental, emotional, physical health over a 24-7, 365, like really a lifetime. Like how far can we zoom out? The more we can zoom out, I think the more macro understanding we have.

1:14:38.5 Joseph Anew: I love it. I love it. Great, great parting words, Lauren. Thank you so much for making the time. It was such a joy talking to you. Thank you so much.

1:14:46.8 Lauren Sambataro: Such a pleasure. Thank you so much.


1:14:56.9 Joseph Anew: Hey, listeners, Joseph here. I hope you enjoyed my conversation today with Lauren Sambataro. Remember to head on over to to go deeper into this episode with full show notes, transcripts, and all the links mentioned in the conversation. That's And this was episode 215 with Lauren Sambataro. And finally, continue this conversation with us in the third wave community; Was there something from today's conversation that moved you, inspired you, informed you? Share your feedback and questions in the third wave community. Sign in and find the psychedelic podcast from the menu. Leave us a comment. And while you're at it, check out the rest of the platform where you can find support, meaningful discussions, as well as high quality education, resources, and providers from across our global ecosystem. You can sign up for free at

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