Wild Woman Unleashed: Psychedelics & Feminine Power

Podcast Highlights

• How Naz discovered the power of psychedelics, starting with microdosing for anxiety.
• How to harness intentionality and intuition with psychedelics for self-discovery.
• The significance of women-only spaces in the realm of psychedelics & transformation.
• Why and how women are underrepresented in the psychedelic space.
• How women can cultivate purpose and the courage to pursue it.
• The crucial role of embodiment in personal transformation.
• Exploring the "wild woman" archetype and its connection to the soul's purpose.
• Joseph & Naz demonstrate a live “pattern interrupt” practice.
• Naz’s eight-week hybrid microdosing course for foundational change.
• The power of working with archetypes.
• How Naz’s participation in Third Wave’s coaching programs impacted her evolution.

Show Links

1. Naz’s website
2. Women Are The Medicine
3. Naz on Third Wave’s Directory
4. Naz on Instagram
5. Women Are The Medicine on Instagram
6. Psychedelic Coaching Institute’s Coaching Certification Program
7. Book, “The Body Keeps the Score” by Bessel van der Kolk M.D.
8. Book, “Eating on the Wild Side” by Jo Robinson
9. The Wolf of Wall Street
10. Podcast episode: Psychedelics & Creativity: Problem-Solving In a New Era of Leadership with Laura Dawn
11. Podcast episode: Regenerative Stewardship: Evolving the Psychedelic Retreat Model with Natasja Pelgrom & Alexander Beiner
12. Podcast episode: Psychedelic Feminism and Male Allies with Zoe Helene

These show links may contain affiliate links. Third Wave receives a small percentage of the product price if you purchase through the above affiliate links.

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Podcast Transcript

0:00:00.0 Joseph Anew: Welcome back to the Psychedelic Podcast by Third Wave, connecting you to the leaders and pioneers of the psychedelic renaissance. This is Joseph Anew, and today I am speaking with Nasreen El-Mariesh, Co-founder of Women Are The Medicine.

0:00:17.2 Nasreen El-Mariesh: How amazing would it be if every single woman trusted her instincts, trusted her intuition, trusted her inner voice? That would be phenomenal, right? We wouldn't be second guessing ourselves, we wouldn't be playing small, we wouldn't be giving into the fear. We would really be like fierce. There's nothing better than connecting a woman to that feeling of, "Oh my God, I'm an absolute badass. I have the strength and this power that I didn't even know that I had. So let me direct it somewhere."

0:00:53.7 Joseph Anew: Welcome to the Psychedelic Podcast by Third Wave. Audio Mycelium, connecting you to the luminaries and thought leaders of the psychedelic renaissance. We bring you illuminating conversations with scientists, therapists, entrepreneurs, coaches, doctors and shamanic practitioners, exploring how we can best use psychedelic medicine to accelerate personal healing, peak performance, and collective transformation.

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0:05:38.4 Joseph Anew: Hey, listeners, this is Joseph Anew, Institute Director at Third Wave Psychedelic Coaching Institute. Welcome back to the show. For my second interview on the podcast, I'm so inspired and humbled to be diving into the intersection of psychedelics, personal growth and female empowerment with somebody who is deeply versed in all of these topics. My guest today is Nasreen El-Mariesh, also known as Naz. She is the co-founder of Women Are The Medicine. Naz is also a core facilitator in our Coaching Certification Program, which you'll hear us refer to as CCP. And she's also one of the coaches that you can work with through our Personalized Psychedelic Coaching service for anybody out there looking for one-on-one coaching around their psychedelic experiences. As always, you can go deeper into this episode with full show notes, transcripts, and any links that we mention in this conversation. Follow the link in the description or just head over to thethirdwave.co/podcast then scroll down to episode number 213 with Nasreen El-Mariesh. Today, Naz and I go deep into how women can cultivate purpose within themselves, as well as the courage to go and live it.

0:06:52.1 Joseph Anew: The crucial role of embodiment in personal transformation. We explore her eight-week hybrid microdosing course for foundational change. And we also explore the significance of women-only spaces in the realm of psychedelics and transformation, and how to harness both intention and intuition with psychedelics. I hope you find this conversation to be as powerful and inspiring as I did. Naz really shares from her heart, and her work is just such a great example of how psychedelics can be used to catalyze real growth and transformation in women and men too. Nasreen El-Mariesh, Naz is a certified coach through the Psychedelic Coaching Institute who specializes in women's empowerment and relationships to self, to loved ones, and to the divine. She is the co-founder of Women Are The Medicine, a UK-based company offering microdosing programs and in-person European retreats dedicated to helping women harness the power of psychedelic integration. Their ultimate goal is to generate a positive wave of female-focused personal and collective growth that will contribute to a more conscious, equitable, and abundant world.

0:08:02.3 Joseph Anew: Naz's coaching approach combines science, somatics, and spirituality to provide an expansive and intuitive coaching experience. By delving deep and approaching self-discovery with curiosity, she guides clients through playful, yet profound explorations of their emotional and energetic existence. This transformative space reveals that the wisdom that they seek resides within, and that fear can be transmuted into love through bold and inspired action. With a decade experience organizing luxury transformational retreats worldwide and an affinity for supporting other coaches, Naz brings a wealth of knowledge to her coaching practice.

0:08:42.7 Joseph Anew: One last thing I'd like to let you know before we dive in with Naz, if you're moved by what you hear and want to know more about the certification program at the Psychedelic Coaching Institute, make sure you sign up for a free live info session hosted by myself and Third Wave founder and CEO Paul F. Austin. You'll learn all about the certification program, the coaching frameworks, the six-day intensive in Costa Rica, and of course there will be time for all of your questions to be answered too. Just head on over to thethirdwave.co./webinar. That's thethirdwave.co/webinar. Enter your email and sign up. It's on September 26th at 0:09:42.0 AM Pacific time and it will be recorded if you can't make it. I'd love to see you there. All right, that's it for now. I hope you enjoy my conversation today with Nasreen El-Mariesh.

0:09:32.0 Joseph Anew: Well, Naz, thank you so much for joining the podcast. Welcome, how are you?

0:09:42.1 Nasreen El-Mariesh: I'm fantastic. Thank you so much for inviting me on the podcast. I can't wait for this.

0:09:45.8 Joseph Anew: Yeah, it's going to be a good one. We're so excited to have you. You do so much work with Third Wave. You, of course, came through the CCP program, CCP2, right? The second cohort?

0:09:57.5 Nasreen El-Mariesh: Correct. Yes.

0:09:59.3 Joseph Anew: Cool. And I was the third cohort. So that's a neat little connection here. Diving right in, I just want to not waste any time with you, Naz, and just begin by asking, when did you first discover the true power of psychedelics as a tool, as a skill? And if you could, how did you sharpen that skill? Like what steps did you begin to take after you realized this incredible tool that exists for all of us? What did it look like becoming who you are today?

0:10:35.1 Nasreen El-Mariesh: That's such a good question. Okay, let me take it in little chunks. So how I discovered the power of psychedelics was kind of accidental. I'd been reading a little bit about microdosing, I hadn't dabbled in any psychedelics since I was very, very young and couldn't really recall anything from those incidences. And I got my hands on some liquid LSD and I started microdosing one summer with my now husband. I didn't know what we were doing. I knew that the dosage had to be kind of small. But what I really quickly came to realise was how profoundly different my life was on a day-to-day level. So before I started microdosing, I had, I wouldn't say crippling anxiety, but definitely that low-level anxiety that just pervaded my morning, every morning, was just like, oh, I'm starting from a minus, you know. And I noticed that when I was microdosing with this LSD that that had disappeared. I also noticed how much I was enjoying my work, how much I was in flow, I was really being really creative. I was thinking through problems, I'm naturally a problem solver anyway, but I was really not getting caught up in the anxiety that might come from finding the right solution or not wanting to get it wrong. So that's how I kind of discovered that, oh my goodness, there's something in this.

0:12:05.4 Nasreen El-Mariesh: This was, I think, just before the trend of, that we're seeing right now about psychedelics that are so prolific. So from that sort of exploration and self-experiment, I then started looking around for ways to do some deeper work. And that's when I found Third Wave actually. I wasn't looking for a training program, I was looking for a retreat actually. I was looking for a retreat so that I could have a really deep experience with psilocybin and with plant medicine, and a Third Wave email came into my inbox and I was like, oh, my Spidey senses, my intuition was ringing the bell on this one. So I booked a call and the rest is kind of history.

0:12:54.0 Joseph Anew: I love that. I love that, Naz. Yeah. And it's cool that path. You mentioned the anxiety that you used to wake up with. And at Third Wave, we talk about well-being as being sort of almost like the base of the pyramid with psychedelics. And then you kind of have the creativity and flow. And now in the work you're doing with women and creating microdosing protocols, it's leadership. You're now contributing to the world at large, and that's sort of the path, right? It's like, clear up my own stuff, be a little bit more productive at work, and then what can I contribute to the world at large?

0:13:32.2 Nasreen El-Mariesh: Yes, absolutely. And psychedelics, although they're showing incredible benefits for mental health disorders, what we're kind of not seeing as much of is people talking about how they can really support you in the self-development space. So you don't have to have anything wrong with you. You know, I'm doing the quotation marks here, "You don't have to have a problem to fix in order to benefit from working with these incredible substances." And I have to say, that summer that I was dabbling with the microdosing was the summer that everything really started to change for me. And I really started to take ownership of my own life, I became the deliberate creator of my life. And when my identity shifted around what was possible for me, that's when all the doors started to open up. So you talk about... You mentioned leadership, it's definitely like self-leadership first, and then, the company that I have at the moment, that I've just launched, Women Are The Medicine, it's really about encouraging women to lean on each other for support. So it's not like leadership as an individual, it's very much about this co-elevation, collaboration, community, because there's something that happens when women get together.

0:14:48.1 Nasreen El-Mariesh: We are strong and fierce and feminine as an individual, but together, oh my goodness, we are an unstoppable force. So that's what we're looking to harness. And that's a mission that requires other people, other women. I'm not just doing this myself and Rachel, my business partner. We are calling in some absolute badass women to work with us, and it's such a privilege to be in this space.

0:15:15.0 Joseph Anew: I love that. I love that. And I want to dive deep into that. But I have to ask you to speak on two quick terms before we head in. So the first one is intention. Like, what does it mean to be intentional with microdosing, psychedelics, maybe what you're creating in the world. What does that mean to you? And then the other thing I want to kind of dive into is intuition. I think those two elements that I know you speak to quite a bit, intention and intuition. What do those mean to you, Naz? What does it mean to be intentional with your psychedelic use?

0:15:58.2 Nasreen El-Mariesh: It's a good question again. So when we're talking about harnessing the power of psychedelics and working with them intentionally, it's really about being very discerning about what you're focusing on and what you're bringing awareness to in your life. And a lot of what we're seeing in the psychedelic space right now is either looking at psychedelics to help people with mental health disorders or looking at how they can help you be more productive or creative or potentially some biohacking in there, which is great if you are from Silicon Valley and you're looking to innovate. But we're looking at how we can support women. And so that intention is about what are we focusing on? It's not about adding more to your plate. Our intention is to be able to help women to shape who they are and take things off their plate, to remove the things that really are preventing them from seeing their true gifts, from accessing their power, from really connecting to their gifts. So for us intention is, it's very personal for each person. But we have an intention for the containers that we are creating and that is very much about, yes, connecting women to their internal power source so that we can then all collaborate and club together to make some really positive change in the world. So that's our intention.

0:17:30.3 Joseph Anew: And in terms of intuition, well, I could talk about intuition for hours, it's such a fascinating skill to develop. And it's something that we are all so disconnected from. We are, in our Western society, the busyness of our lives really stops us, prevents us from accessing this very nuanced skill that requires our lives to be quiet. And not all the time, but in the moment when you're accessing that internal wisdom or the wisdom from outside of you from consciousness, from your higher self, whatever it is that you believe about intuition. And we know, so Rachel is my business partner, and we know that when you allow for that spaciousness in your life, when you're taking away all the things that you don't need, and you allow yourself to connect to these incredible skills that we all have these intuitive skills, you can very easily start to carve a path for your life to be the deliberate creator of your life. And it just builds such self-trust. And that's something that we are missing as women is that we don't trust ourselves. We look outside of ourselves for validation and accreditation and approval. How amazing would it be if every single woman trusted her instincts, trusted her intuition, trusted her inner voice? That would be phenomenal.

[chuckle]

0:19:04.4 Nasreen El-Mariesh: We wouldn't be second guessing ourselves, we wouldn't be playing small, we wouldn't be giving into the fear. We would really be like fierce. That's like my word of the year, it used to be bold. Last year was a bold year. This year is a fierce year. [laughter] So it's really about unleashing that and that you can feel, you can see how passionate I'm, we're on video now, so you can see I'm kind of much more animated. I love that there's nothing better than connecting a woman to that feeling of, oh my God, I'm an absolute badass. I have this strength and this power that I don't even know that I had. So let me direct it somewhere. Right? And that's the other thing. There's no point in having connection to that internal power source if there's not somewhere for you to direct it, which might just be creative expression, right? We're not saying it has to be some big worthy contribution to the world, although we'd love that. But it could just be, I'm just gonna dress how I want to, say whatever it is that I want to, make a stand for the things that I believe in. You know, that's the job done.

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0:21:29.1 Joseph Anew: Well, that's how the biggest things are created, right? Not that we're hedging on trying to change the world in a single step, but the... When you think of the big, or think of the small as big, right? Like being yourself, doing this with your hair, wearing these clothes, speaking this truth. Well, don't be surprised if that leads you to bigger things that you maybe you couldn't have intended on, but it was in fact, the fact that you just invested in yourself. And Naz, it sounds a little bit like intention or sort of like... I'm envisioning that you probably might know that story. There was like a this massive, and I'm gonna butcher it to the people that are in the mindfulness spaces, but there was this like amazing huge gold statue of Buddha, and there was an attack coming in and they covered the Buddha with mud. So it just looked like a gross mound of mud. Have you ever heard this story?

0:22:23.9 Nasreen El-Mariesh: I remember parts of it, yes.

0:22:29.4 Joseph Anew: So they have this beautiful, massive, it's like the biggest golden block on the planet, and it's just this Buddha, but they were getting attacked by whoever, and they covered it with mud to protect it and hide it in a way. And then the battle came through and ruined everything. And then later on, I think it was quite many years later, someone came and started picking the mud off of this thing and found this incredibly beautiful, massive stone, golden Buddha. And it sounds to me like I thought of that, that's kinda what came up when you were describing intention and intuition. It's almost like that golden Buddha is inside every woman, and we've got all of this stuff, all of this belief, all of this mud and maybe intention is sort of like the pickaxe that's starting to chisel away at some of this mud that's on top of that golden, powerful, bold, fierce spirit below.

0:23:21.6 Nasreen El-Mariesh: Yeah, I love that. And that reminds me of the analogy of like looking at a sculpture and then realizing that at some point that was just a block of marble. And to get to that masterpiece, the artist chipped away at what was no longer necessary. So the masterpiece was already there, it was fully formed and incredibly beautiful and unique in its entirety existing in that moment, and it was just the artist who chipped away. So yes, we are all artists of our own life, and that's the greatest joy. I think, this is a journey of self-discovery. Who you get to become along the way is far more interesting really than the end destination, right? But you have to have that in mind so you know that there's gold there, you know that there's a masterpiece. So it's the path to getting there.

0:24:14.2 Joseph Anew: I love that. I love that, know that there's gold underneath, and I think that's where people [laughter] like we gotta have that belief and that faith and that trust and that surrender, right? But Naz, let me ask why then... Like, is this true, why is it important to develop and create what you're creating, which are women specific? Why is it important to have a container that's just women?

0:24:39.6 Nasreen El-Mariesh: Yeah. It's a good question, and it feels so obvious to me as a woman that I require containers and spaces that are designed just for me. And it's because we are living in a system, the patriarchy that doesn't support us as women. It doesn't support us to be whole. We have been taught to play small, to be a good girl, and that system that we operate in is not just external. It's not just the world that we live in. It's actually internal. It's actually programmed within us. So you can't simply treat a woman and the issues that she has in the same way that you might work with a man, right? We have specific issues. So why we wanted to create spaces for women was that so that we could address those in a really fun and enticing and sensual and exploratory and fun way.

0:25:49.2 Nasreen El-Mariesh: And also, again, working in the way that we do, we believe that much of transformation happens in community, or at least in presence with another nervous system, which is why we love group containers. It's why we love in-person retreats. And for us, we wanna be able to have well-tuned nervous systems in community that help other women to thrive. So it just felt... It felt necessary. It feels like the space, the psychedelic space, although there, I know that there's burgeoning interest from women, you can kind of feel this wave of women being drawn towards working in the psychedelic space. It's primarily a man's realm, right? And so therefore, even research into mental health and physical issues, they tend to be done on men, right? So we are very underrepresented in medical research, in all sorts of areas. So we thought, why don't we just create for ourselves what it is that we feel is missing? What would we like to be part of? And I think that's the really exciting thing for us, is that we're so passionate about creating what we've created [laughter], because it's what we wanted. Right?

0:27:11.2 Joseph Anew: I love that. I love that. Creating what you wanted and you're so right. There's... I was just creating a program with Third Wave, and in the beginning we were trying to basically feature some of these sort of luminaries and Nobel Prize winners and famous people that have come out and said I love LSD or [laughter] or I... The number of... There's quite a few Nobel Prize winners, like more than one or two that have not only admitted to LSD contributing to their discovery, but admitted that they were actually on LSD when they discovered the thing that got them the Nobel Prize, right? But...

0:27:55.6 Nasreen El-Mariesh: I love that.

0:27:59.8 Joseph Anew: What I noticed in that process was that there was literally no women. So it's a bunch of men like Steve Jobs and Tim Ferriss and some of these people. And it begs the question, have women not been using psychedelics or have women not been able to come out and say, are men... Can men be bad boys, and they break laws and they use illicit substances. Is it that what you're referring to, is it true that women haven't been using them too? Or is it just that our society has created a scenario where women can't maybe as freely come out and say, hey, I used LSD too?

0:28:43.3 Nasreen El-Mariesh: Yeah, maybe it's a bit of both. I mean, I don't have the answers to that. I do know anecdotally that when I have spoken on stage about the work that I do, or I have hosted a panel talk discussions around psychedelics, I can tell you that there are a lot of women in the audience, but the people who come to talk to me afterwards are men. So it's just really, really interesting. I think maybe there's a lot more work to be done to make it really enticing for women. There are certainly some female pillars in the psychedelic space. Laura Dawn being one of them, I know she's featured on Third Wave. She's been one of the guest lecturers, Kat Coder, there are some incredible women. Natasja Pelgrom doing work in this space. It's just we need more. We need more. So, that's why I'm really supportive of the work that Third Wave are doing, because I got so much benefit from the program.

0:29:46.5 Joseph Anew: Yeah. Yeah. We, yeah, we need more women in the space. And it'd be great if Michelle Obama would come out and say like, I love LSD. Something like really big like that. So when we look at... I wanna begin to get into purpose. And when we... We've been talking about intuition and this idea that intentionality can kind of really create this sort of that deconstruction, that tearing away of all of these things that are blocking our intuition, our power, our gifts. So how does that lead into purpose, Naz?

0:30:29.7 Nasreen El-Mariesh: Such a good question.

0:30:29.9 Joseph Anew: Which I know is something you help women discover, right?

0:30:33.8 Nasreen El-Mariesh: Absolutely. Absolutely. So I'll talk to you a little bit about why it feels so difficult sometimes as a woman to discover your gifts or to discover your purpose. That is that we don't trust what comes easily to us. The things that we are effortlessly good at, so for me as a coach, like open-hearted, non-judgmental listening, being present, right? Those are skills that I have, they're qualities that I have. They're my gifts. I've turned those into something that I can now share with the world and have greater impact. And as much as I put effort into my business and my work and my training, it also is effortless for me, right? When we're having this conversation now, and I'm feeling so passionate about it, it's effortless. So as women, we are taught that if it's effortless, if it's easy, if it's coming easy to you and it's not measurable by the patriarchal standards, right? You can't get a certificate for it, then it's not a value.

0:31:38.2 Nasreen El-Mariesh: So we spend our time in our masculine energy of trying to get accredited, get approval, do all the courses, get all the certificates, get all the achievements, the recognition, the success, and maybe then we will know what our purpose is. And our purpose is our passion and our purpose is what comes easy to us. Where we wanna connect women to this gift, to this inner knowing, is also about connecting them to their bravery, to have the courage to stand in that, and to know that that's their gift. So it's not enough just to realize that that's your passion and that's your gift, and maybe even that's your purpose, why you are here as a human being, but to have the courage to lead from the heart and to actually walk that path, that's what we feel like we're here to do.

0:32:39.6 Joseph Anew: I think courage is, it's a required skill, particularly on the psychedelic path, right? And I think that... I think when people are stepping into psychedelics, maybe they're just as afraid of some like life altering positive thing as they are of negative thing, right? Like, maybe someone's just as afraid of a bad trip as a trip that says they need to quit their job and move to South Africa. You know, like there's like a...

0:33:17.6 Nasreen El-Mariesh: Yes.

0:33:18.7 Joseph Anew: I think courage, like whether it's to do the shadow stuff or the darker stuff, or even whether it's to step into the light, where do you find the courage Naz? Like, that's a... I think that's where a lot of people get stuck. They have a psychedelic experience, it says... It gives them all these profound insights, but then you have to come out of that space and you gotta get back in this sort of density and then do it, and it's like, well, shit, it was way easier on MDMA to envision myself doing it. [laughter]

0:33:48.9 Nasreen El-Mariesh: Yeah, exactly. I mean, the answer is obviously we just take MDMA all the time every day. No, I'm not advocate for that. [laughter] But it's a fantastic question, and it really alludes to the fact that why we need more integration specialists in this world today, right? And our flavor of integration is gonna be different from yours and from other coaches in Third Wave, but integration is that missing piece, right? It's the ability for you to take that understanding and that knowledge and to weave it into your mundane life. Because the mundane can also be enormously rewarding, right? So the every day and our connection to that, the connection to the moment and presence is really extraordinary. So I really believe that if you do integration thoroughly and profoundly, like give it the space that it really requires, and the energy and the intention and the effort, you can remember those moments, those mystical experiences, those spiritual experiences that move you to be courageous.

0:35:07.7 Nasreen El-Mariesh: You can remember them in the day-to-day and in the mundane. So that's why integration is so, so important. And I'm not gonna attempt to say it, but that Marianne Williamson's quote about our greatest fear is really about having these gifts and actually understanding that we are the gold underneath all of that mud, right? So courage comes from being with other women. This is in our instance, who are also on the same path, who are committed to leading from the heart. And it's really interesting 'cause this is what came to me in my last Ayahuasca ceremony. I was asking the medicine, where does my strength come from? And she very clearly showed me first by thumping my hand on my heart. So sort of like beating my chest a little bit like that scene in a Wolf of Wall Street, right?

0:36:02.8 Nasreen El-Mariesh: [laughter] Where I'm beating my chest. So she was showing me... Yes, yes, exactly that. She was showing me that my strength is in my heart, and then the visions that I had to accompany that. And I'm not a particularly visual person, so it was more like a faded photograph, but the presence of all of my feminine powerhouse friends, family, people that I know, my peers, they were all around me. And we are stronger in that community. So you get courage from being with other people, right? It's really... I think as women, it's very challenging for us to be... To think of ourselves as a courageous individual. But you put us in a group, whew. And again, I'm talking in slight generalizations here, but this is what we found when we put women in a group together, in a circle together. The vulnerability and the strength, cocktail of amazingness. [laughter]

0:37:04.0 Joseph Anew: You're the average of the five people you spend the most time with. You know, it's like if you're hanging out, it's why as a parent, you're so confused or not confused, you're so concerned with the friends that your kids hang out with because you become the average of the people you're spending the most time with. And I think that intentionally creating circles with aligned, purposeful, driven women, that's the contagion, right? That's the thing. I also wanted to share a quick quote with you, Naz. So in my past life we used to create all these motivational videos, and I can't remember where we took this quote from. It was either Muhammad Ali or from a Rocky movie or something. But it said, my greatest fear is not that I am inadequate, it is that I become powerful beyond measure. And we put that like right at the start of an inspirational video. And like even now I get chills. Like it was just such an inspiring line that my greatest fear is not that I'm inadequate, but that I will be powerful beyond measure, it's like, wow, like that's a pretty neat inspirational little quote.

0:38:20.3 Nasreen El-Mariesh: Absolutely. And it's a real fear, like when you connect to... And I think this is the same for man or woman, when you really connect to that inner vein of strength and power, and you feel like I am on mission, I am fully aligned to what it is that I want to do, there's this moment of realization where you go, holy moly, this is huge, this is too big for me, right? So where Rachel and I work is around creating that expansiveness of someone's identity, which means that you're able to stretch your edges and to hold the standards of what it's like to be that person who has that much power and responsibility. And a key part of that is humility, right? Not modesty, but humility around really understanding and being grounded with the truth of who you are. And it's from that, that power is very consistent. It's not an egotistical, it's not reliant on approval from others, it's not external. It comes from within. Yeah.

0:39:25.5 Joseph Anew: Things have to always come down to earth. And so we have to... In this physical plane, we have to house that energy, we have to embody that energy. What is embodiment's role? Like is that... How does that play into your integration circles, Naz? This idea of embodiment, because it sounds like we're trying to... We're identifying this force, this power, this intuitive sense, and it can be scary to hold that. So the container of my body must be the vehicle for that. So what is embodiment to you?

0:40:05.2 Nasreen El-Mariesh: Yeah, well, embodiment is everything for us. We absolutely believe that you cannot have real transformation unless it's embodied and that is taking into account everything, not just the physical, but the energetic and the emotional. And again, bringing it back to women and how we're not taught or we're not allowed to be whole, we're not allowed to accept all of the parts of us, all of the feelings that we have, all of the emotions, that whole spectrum of emotions that we have. It's like we're given a reduced menu where you can choose some of this and you can have polite this and you can have a little bit of anger, but not rage, you can't have rage. And my God, don't go down the grief side of things. It's like we're so manicured and actually embodiment is about really fully expressing all of those and using the body, using the somatics, the power of somatics to help someone to really feel the way that their mind is telling them that they can, right? We do a lot of cognitive stuff, don't we, in coaching. It's a lot... It's very cognitive, although now there's a... Again, a real movement towards using much more somatic practices.

0:41:32.3 Nasreen El-Mariesh: And Rachel, who's my business partner, she is a trained somatic coach as well. So she loves this topic of embodiment, but it really, it's about engaging in the emotions, engaging in movement, engaging in voice and expression. It's everything. And we weave that into all of our integration practices. I mean, it's so fully woven into what we do that you can't extrapolate it. You can't say, well, that little bit is embodiment and that isn't because it's all embodiment really.

0:42:02.6 Joseph Anew: And I love that appreciation. I do sense the growing appreciation for the somatic work, for the energy flow, for realizing we're energetic beings. And when energy comes into it and you can't just stand there militant, right? It's sometimes you have to move, you have to get this energy flowing. And I think even that permission, right? To, and as you were saying, you're like, women are so conditioned to don't feel that, don't get mad, just keep things on an even keel. Well, to what extent is that body being, the body keeps the score, to what extent does that body just need to move and whether it's dance or whether it's roar. I just read Call of the Wild, I think it's called and the author, it's really a book about somatics for women, but it was useful for me too. And it's like, she teaches you how to roar with specific annunciations and such. And it's like, wow, this is really necessary stuff that really fills in some of the gaps in terms of the more cognitive, kind of more like, yeah, the more sort of between the ear approach to therapy or finding our purpose. It's like, well, sometimes you just got to roar and crawl around the room or something.

0:43:22.0 Nasreen El-Mariesh: Yes. There's nothing like a bit of roaring or moving or shaking or dancing to really shake things up energetically. And, again, we're talking about how you integrate and how you create change for someone. And if you're looking at the neuroscience of this, and we're not neuroscientists, we are coaches, but we like to work on evidence-based practices. And one of those is pattern disrupts, right? And shaking things up literally is a really great way to help someone to break those patterns that we're in. And that's all. That's a lot of what coaching is, right? Even you talking about not sort of being afraid to step into our power is because the comfortable and the known is so much safer for us. So, if we can teach women to be unsafe, as in like not to play politely, but to be outrageous and to move their bodies and to make noise then... Which we do in our retreat experiences, then they feel like, wow, I can do this. I give myself permission to be wild.

0:44:30.9 Nasreen El-Mariesh: It's like an archetype, right? The wild woman is an archetype and she is the closest archetype to, I would say, to your soul's purpose, because she's really like the veil between the wild woman and who you are at your core is the thinnest. It's something that we're... It's we're so passionate about allowing women to, or women feeling like they are allowed to access those parts of themselves. And I think maybe what prevents some women from doing that is feeling like, well, if I access that wild woman, I'm never going to stop raging. I'm so angry or I'm never going to stop crying because I have so much grief in me. Right? And psychedelic journeys, macro journeys are really amazing for bringing those emotions, those sort of dense, hardened emotions and softening them up and bringing them up to the surface so that you can feel them and process them. So that's a really important part of the integration and is also in the journey, is accepting whatever comes up for you. Whether you... We talked about whether it's a challenging trip or a trip that, or a journey that makes you realize that you want to change your whole life around, I think a lot of women are scared to access their emotions because they feel like if I go into that pit, I ain't coming out because it's big.

0:45:58.8 Nasreen El-Mariesh: And, I'm just talking about it on an individual basis. But then you layer on ancestral trauma and all of that, it's like, okay, there's a lot and their well is deep, right? So I understand why people don't want to go there, which is why we need safe containers and guides who have integrity and understanding of what women really need to help them walk this path.

0:46:25.9 Joseph Anew: I love the sort of that unknown, right? It's like the longer and the longer we go... Here's the deal, is like men and women that are afraid to step into that, it's like, if I let the rage out, I'm going to go insane or, I'm not going to be able to put the cat back in the bag, those types of fears keep us stuck, but the longer we stay stuck, the more things we fear and the more rage is actually maybe accumulating as well. So there's this intense... It kind of comes back to courage, right? And I think, you mentioned pattern interrupt. Like what... So what more can you say about pattern interrupt, Naz? So like someone's afraid, they're afraid to step into this. What, does that have anything to do with it? What's an example of a pattern interrupt that you can recall maybe that was so desperately needed. I feel like it's an important topic.

0:47:32.1 Nasreen El-Mariesh: It's a really important topic. And you're going to love this because the most recent pattern interrupt, I've just been teaching a bunch of coaches that Rachel and I are mentoring. Actually, we just taught them this technique and then I used it really recently with a client and it's going to sound kind of off-putting for people. But I don't want you to think this is what we do all the time, but it's really effective and one of those things is to... So, okay, I'm going to do you up for playing. I'm going to get you to do it.

0:48:01.0 Joseph Anew: All right. All right.

0:48:04.0 Nasreen El-Mariesh: Okay.

0:48:04.4 Joseph Anew: Let's go.

0:48:05.4 Nasreen El-Mariesh: So give me a limiting belief, please, Joseph.

0:48:08.4 Joseph Anew: Oh, mercy. Which one? I've got plenty. [laughter]

0:48:14.6 Nasreen El-Mariesh: Choose one that you don't mind sharing with the world on a podcast.

0:48:21.1 Joseph Anew: Okay. A limiting belief is that I am a... I'll be more vulnerable, I don't care. It's okay. I will say a limiting belief is that I have a... There are limitations in my program that may prevent me from being the best possible husband for my wife that I could be.

0:48:46.6 Nasreen El-Mariesh: Oh, okay. Wow. Thank you for being vulnerable. If we were to put that into a...

0:48:52.9 Joseph Anew: I want to get the most out of this session.

0:48:56.3 Nasreen El-Mariesh: I know this has now turned to a coaching session. No, we're going to do something really quick. I'm going to demonstrate. So if you were to distill that into a belief, would it be like, I'm a shitty husband? I don't know if I can swear on the podcast, but I just did. But would it be, I'm a crap husband?

0:49:12.1 Joseph Anew: So I wouldn't say I'm a shitty husband. I think I'm a decent husband. I would love to be like a fantastic husband. And I'm wondering to what extent I am limited in that pursuit due to generational and present trauma.

0:49:28.0 Nasreen El-Mariesh: Okay. Okay. I'm not a good enough husband, right? Would that be fair?

0:49:32.6 Joseph Anew: I'm not a good enough husband. Yes. That's fair.

0:49:34.7 Nasreen El-Mariesh: I'm not a good enough husband. Yeah, yeah. Okay. So we want to take that belief that might be repeating in your mind a little bit like a CD that's playing and we want to take that CD out and we want to scratch it so that when you try and access it again, it doesn't work. Okay. So this really works for those deep ingrained beliefs and they work especially well when you do have one that's at the, like an extreme pendulum. So let's say you did have one and it was like, I'm a really bad husband or I'm not good enough, right? I'm just, I'm not good enough. So here's what we would do. I would get you to say that limiting belief in a squeaky Mickey Mouse voice. So we're going to do it together.

[laughter]

0:50:16.5 Joseph Anew: I have to do this on the podcast.

0:50:19.6 Nasreen El-Mariesh: You have to do it. Come on. I am a...

0:50:20.9 Joseph Anew: I'm not a good enough husband.

0:50:23.9 Nasreen El-Mariesh: What is it? I'm not a good enough husband. I'm not a good enough husband. And now stick your finger up your nose and say it.

0:50:32.0 Joseph Anew: Oh, come on.

0:50:34.1 Nasreen El-Mariesh: Seriously. Come on. You could do this, you asked for a pattern interrupt.

0:50:34.2 Joseph Anew: I'm not a good enough husband.

0:50:36.2 Nasreen El-Mariesh: I'm not a good enough husband. And now say it with a really slow voice. I'm not a good enough husband.

0:50:42.3 Joseph Anew: I'm not a good enough husband.

[laughter]

0:50:47.6 Nasreen El-Mariesh: Right. You can take your finger out your nose. Thank you for playing along. Right? Now when you access that thought, what are you reminded of? How does it feel? Right?

0:51:01.3 Joseph Anew: Me being an idiot on a live podcast with my finger up my nose. Yeah. It's I'm a joke. Yeah. I'm a joker.

0:51:07.8 Nasreen El-Mariesh: Well, it sounds... It's ridiculous, right? The belief starts to become ridiculous. So, I'm giving you a really extreme version, but can you see how we're using emotions? Felt sense. If it was a deeper session, I would get you jumping around, I would get you feeling into your body. And this is just one of the tools that you could use. I call it the more outrageous pattern interrupts. Rachel is really skilled at doing these sort of like micro pattern interrupts, which is kind of what we just did, but on a much smaller version, really bringing in the breath. But I wanted to have a bit of fun with you on the podcast and see how far I could push it, but okay, so playful, right? So can you see how I pushed you to an edge there? Right? Or I invited you to walk with me to the edge and stick your finger up your nose.

0:52:00.3 Nasreen El-Mariesh: This kind of like the out of the ordinary. If you're doing... If you're in containers and there's nothing new and you're not being stretched to do things that you wouldn't normally do, you're not going to transform, right? So a pattern interrupt can be anything. It doesn't have to be what I've just demonstrated with yourself. It can be interrupting patterns of thought, moving, making sounds, rewriting your limiting beliefs. It can be on a macro level, like we've just done on a micro level, anchoring things in with body movements, but that's where the skill of an integration coach comes in, is you get to weave all of this in and make some really fun practices. But I can tell you the most... Some of the most profound changes I've had with my clients has been because I've been brave enough, this is my courage to take them to that place where we are playful and we are a bit silly. We're not being irreverent with the topic, but we're making light of it so that we can minimize its impact. Right? So thank you for playing along.

0:53:14.0 Joseph Anew: Of course. I feel like if we were in the same room, you would have splashed me with cold water right when I was like in my moment, like, ah. And it's great, as you said, I love that. If you don't step outside the norm and you just try to do everything cognitively, it's like you're not going to transform you're not going to move energy. It takes a certain amount of courage to step into the work. And there's a certain degree of playfulness that like, I love that, that when we look at kids, it's like, they're just present and they're in the moment and they'll pick their nose and they're... They'll tell you exactly what they want to eat. They'll... They don't have all of this junk and they're doing everything for sport. Like everything is for fun, like they'll play... They'll play soccer for as long as it's fun. But then as an adult, it's like, no, I have to run seven miles because that's going to burn 640 calories.

0:54:23.6 Joseph Anew: And that's how much my lunch was. Like there's all of this. There's no playfulness. It's all very, as you said, like masculine or Apollonian or binary or one plus one is two. And it's like, when you get into play and you look at the energetics of a kid, it's like one plus one might equal 50 because you're actually... It's an energetic kind of multiplier when you actually get out of the mind and into the body and into the heart, and you actually start moving around the room and picking your nose and doing all sorts of weird stuff.

0:54:55.1 Nasreen El-Mariesh: I love it. Absolutely. We all take life way, way, way too seriously and the more we can access that state of play, I mean, ultimately, I think... Again, this is one of the messages that came to me on a psychedelic journey, was that this existence that we have, this human experience, this world that we live in, it's a playground and that we're here to play, to enjoy it, to experiment. And somewhere along the line, we've lost that idea that this is just play and we've made it all serious and there has to be some purpose. And the purpose of play is just to play. Right. I love that.

0:55:42.9 Joseph Anew: And mushrooms grow on every playground. [laughter] So like, now I want to get... 'Cause I know you're also doing microdosing, you have a microdosing course, right? And so like, what is the role of microdosing? I would imagine someone that even is so resistant to some of this work, like I'll pick my nose on the air, but a lot of people maybe wouldn't, but how does microdosing actually help with some of this integration and some of this somatic work? Is there a fit there? Is there a usefulness there?

0:56:19.8 Nasreen El-Mariesh: Yeah, of course. I mean, and just for the record, we don't ask people to stick their fingers up their nose on our microdosing course, but what we do know, I'm getting distracted now 'cause I'm giggling, what we do know about working with psychedelics such as psilocybin is that it promotes neuroplasticity in the brain. So it makes the brain more malleable and more easy to shape. So if you are pattern interrupting, if you are embedding new beliefs, and if you are creating practices around movement and meditation and presence, and you're microdosing, the impact of that is that it's going to be much, much more easy for you to integrate all of that, benefit all of that for it to be deep and long lasting change. And, we really... We love our microdosing program. We're just about to launch it this summer. We've designed it with a really beautiful metaphor of the garden.

0:57:23.3 Nasreen El-Mariesh: And we love the analogy of the garden because your life, if you can imagine it is this rich and... Or potentially rich and fertile land in which you can grow a garden and you're the gardener, so you're both the garden and the gardener, a little bit of non-duality there. But when you think about planting things into the soil, the soil itself has to be rich and nutrient-dense, and there has to be no weeds and no boulders. So our microdosing course is literally the experience of how do you cultivate all the things in your life that you want? How do you make your soil so rich that anything you want to plant in there is going to grow. You're going to be able to harvest the fruits of your efforts and you're not going to be thinking, oh my God, I've totally forgotten to water my garden, or my garden is overrun with weeds. Right? So our microdosing programs are really foundational. They're not about trying to make you more productive or put more things on your plate. They're really about building that richness in your soil, creating that foundation from which you can then start to take on bigger and bigger things. Right?

0:58:54.3 Joseph Anew: I love that. And it's so just I love the metaphor, Jo Robinson's book. It's called Eating On The Wild Side. And she based like our soils, the metaphor is great, but the truth is the soils in our world are so depleted, just like our internal metaphorical soils are. And in that book, she talks about how 150 years ago, a wild apple had 100 times more nutrition in it than an apple grown today, which means today you have to eat 100 apples to get them. So the expression like a doctor a day... Or not a doctor a day, whatever it is, an apple a day keeps the doctor away, that was probably true. But today our soils, our literal soils are so depleted that now it's just water and sugar in there pretty much. So there's this like the metaphor is so true. And it's like you've mentioned a few times, generational trauma, conditioning programs. It's like, yeah, the soil needs a lot of love and attention and remineralization and love and care and all this stuff. So, Naz, what else is in that microdosing program? You said it kicks off this summer. So what's the framework? What is the... Is it a 60 day program? Or what are the sort of nuts and bolts of that? Because that sounds like just such a great way to kind of step towards psychedelics.

1:00:25.7 Nasreen El-Mariesh: Yeah, that's what we've designed it for. It's really for people who are curious about psychedelics, maybe they've decided that they want to work with microdosing. And this is like our foundational course. So how we're designing it is to be an eight week group hybrid program. And by hybrid, I mean that it's got group coaching in there, there's a circle, but you're also going to get a little bit of one-to-one contact with Rachel and myself as integration coaches, and you're also going to get some pre-recorded material and some workbooks. So it's rich in that there's going to be plenty for people to be getting on with. But this is not about making their lives busier or fuller. Right? I keep mentioning this, but as women, we don't need to add more things to our plate. If we're using the metaphor of the garden, we're already in somebody else's garden, gardening their garden, whilst our own is just overrun with weeds and not getting any attention. So our program works with the principles of how to create change, how to really discover who you are, how to compost, again, gardening metaphor, what it is that isn't serving you, so that you can then start to plant.

1:01:45.2 Nasreen El-Mariesh: After this microdosing course, you'd be able to really plant the desires that you have and actually believe and know that if you just continue to take inspired action, that those desires coming to fruition would actually be inevitable, right? If you just continued to do what you were doing. And we've got other ways for people to work with us as well. But it just felt, like, so necessary. It's like don't jump in there trying to get people to completely turn their lives around. It's like, no, no, no how can we create this beautiful, rich soil? Like you said, it's like regenerative farming. We've got to think of things differently. We're not going in and planting things straight away. So some of the what's really interesting about how we work is that we love to work with archetypes as well. I know I've mentioned them when I mentioned the Wild woman, but archetypes are a really amazing way to help your subconscious to hitch onto an idea of who it is you want to be or what it is you want to cultivate in yourself. So we'll be using archetypes. We'll be using maybe even some tarot. Just throwing a little bit in there because the psyche really loves symbols and pictures, and it's just fun. What have you got there? Tarot.

1:03:14.8 Joseph Anew: I'll pull a card once in a while.

1:03:17.6 Nasreen El-Mariesh: Yeah, right. And again, yeah when you pull a card, you're working with the unseen, you're working with the subconscious mind, you're working with intuition, the messages that are coming through to you that are already kind of on your periphery, that are just trying to crystallize, and you're bringing them into focus. So we really like that. And this is what we found. Again, totally selfish. I'm designing and Rachel is designing the courses that we would want to do. I'm like, yes, give me some archetypes. Yes, give me some movement practices and some embodiment and some group circles and some coaching. It's like, that's exactly what my jam is. I'm like I love it, I'm all over it. I want to do it, sign me up.

1:04:02.4 Joseph Anew: I love it. No, I want to do it. I don't think I qualify, though. But the archetypal stuff is so interesting, and we've chatted a little bit about it in the past, and I've had a lot of conversations with Paul about it. It's Carl Jung's work around the different archetypes for the men... For men, it's like king, warrior, magician, lover, like, four of the big ones. But then, of course, there's other ones. And I think it's an incredibly powerful tool that not a lot of people are talking about, not a lot of people are utilizing. But to appreciate that there's a really good chance that you've got a wild woman inside you, I've got a wild man inside of me, there's all of this energy that exists, and we don't quite maybe understand it, but when people do the work with the archetypes and such, they get profound results. So like there's something there.

1:04:57.6 Nasreen El-Mariesh: Yes. And they're really easy for us to understand. Right? We know when we are... You can identify the archetypes that you're in. And I use archetypes all the time in my coaching, and I don't even have to mention them to my clients. I'm just aware of which archetypes they are residing in just by the language that they're using or the actions that they're taking, even the topic of what they're talking about will tell me which archetype they're in. So we really want to empower people to... If it floats their boat, if they really like this, and a lot of women do, is to get intimate with an archetype that really inspires you. Right? So for this year, the archetype, the tarot of 2023 is the chariot. So the chariot is all around the vehicle that got us here is not going to get us to where we want to go. Right? It's not fit for purpose. And if you look at the whole system of the world right now, what we're living in, doesn't that feel really apt? It's like, it doesn't cancel what we've had or how far we've come, but the wagon needs to be changed. Okay, it's not going to get us to where we want to go. We got to build a new wagon, and we got to get some new horses. And I think that is like, again, it's so powerful, it really... It can really fire you up when you connect to the messages that are in archetypes, tarot, symbolism, myths, we love all that. It's very rich.

1:06:34.8 Joseph Anew: It's very rich. And out of curiosity, there's a reason they've been around forever.

1:06:43.0 Nasreen El-Mariesh: Yes.

1:06:44.4 Joseph Anew: It's like if there wasn't something there, then we wouldn't still be talking about tarot.

1:06:52.5 Nasreen El-Mariesh: I know it's fascinating, and I like to think of myself as a lifelong learner, and I'm not fixed to one thing or another. I'm not prescriptive about the way that I work, but I like to be influenced by the things that I'm really passionate about, and that's what we teach the women that we work with. It's like, what matters to you if you believe in tarot and archetypes and it excites you and it stirs something within you and you can connect to it and it feels useful, use it. And if it doesn't don't, right? It's again being brave enough to stand in what you know is your truth, and also having the right to change your mind if you want to. Okay?

1:07:37.8 Joseph Anew: Right.

1:07:38.4 Nasreen El-Mariesh: It's that. Women, we change our minds all the time. We're like kaleidoscopes. It's amazing, it's beautiful. And we have the right to do that. We have the right to do that.

1:07:49.2 Joseph Anew: Absolutely. Well, and it seems like kind tying this all up, it's like we talked about courage and how challenging it can be to step out of your comfort zone, to let the wild woman out of her cage, to step into the shadow work, the good or the bad or the unknown. And it seems like archetypes might be a pretty cool raft off of that island of security in terms of who's going with you on this journey into the unknown, who's going to be your sort of surrogate courage and who's there with you. And as you said, it would only make sense that that can change because when I'm on the island of security and I'm actually unhappy and bottled up, I might need the warrior to get me off the island. But then once I'm like, oh, shit, this is great. This new island is perfect and my purpose is fulfilled and I'm aligned and I'm connected with others and I'm in this sacred space, like well, now I can turn down the warrior and maybe turn up the queen or the jester or whatever else is more fit for this new island. That makes total sense.

1:09:14.0 Nasreen El-Mariesh: Yeah, it does to me. I mean, the work that I've done has distilled the archetypes that I tend to work with primarily, and this, I'm talking about me, not necessarily Women Are The Medicine here, but I can narrow them down to eight. So there are four shadow and four light archetypes. And when you're in one of the shadow, you're in all of them. So you might be in the child who doesn't know what they want. Who doesn't... They don't know who they are. You might be in the victim who's always like, I can't believe this is happening to me again. You might be in the saboteur. It's one of my favorite archetypes to identify. Like people who are really smart tend to be in their saboteur. So this is the... Comes in at the last minute and tells you that you can't do something or that you're not qualified. And then there's the archetype of the prostitute who is terrified that she's going to get kicked out of the tribe. So she has no value, she has no self-worth. So those are like the four shadow archetypes that I identify when my clients are below the line, when they're working... When they're sort of in that victimhood consciousness.

1:10:27.7 Nasreen El-Mariesh: And then the archetypes that I am evoking in them are the lover, who knows her self-worth, the sovereign who knows exactly who she is, the warrior who's not afraid to take action and who has incredible boundaries, and the Magician, who is my favorite archetype who just pulls the rabbit out the hat, out of nowhere and can create absolute magic, can create a magic show out of no... Like, a street performer, like out of nothing, right? And those archetypes are so strong and so powerful and so easy to identify that when you know them and you know you're in your shadow, it's really quite easy for you to go, oh, I'm being a total victim here. And what is that I need to do is I need to take action so that I can get into my warrior. So they have their counterparts. It's like a puzzle. I mean, I get so passionate about talking about this, but it really is. Once you have these keys, you can really start to unlock things and your whole world expands and starts to shift. There really are quite incredible archetypes.

1:11:38.6 Joseph Anew: I love, there's something I've said to clients over the years as it relates to all sorts of different things and it's kind of coming up now in terms of this victim or prostitute, and it's any less than 100% is 0%.

1:11:57.5 Nasreen El-Mariesh: Yes.

1:11:57.8 Joseph Anew: Because we always try to be 51% on the diet plan and pretending like we're 100% in it. It's like, and with the archetypes, I'd imagine it's almost like trying to get out of the saboteur, it's like... Someone may be like, well, I'm not doing it as bad as I used to do it. Well, but you're still doing it. So this idea... What comes up when I say any less than 100% is 0% to you, Naz?

1:12:28.4 Nasreen El-Mariesh: When you're in one shadow, you're in them all. You can't be in your shadow a little bit. And I'm talking specifically around these shadow archetypes, because I know shadow work is used also in psychotherapy and in coaching, but I'm talking specifically about when you're in these archetypes, when you're below the line, when you're not in your empowered state. And I'm always, in my coaching, encouraging people to empower themselves to get out of the mud. Right? They're in their shadow, and you can't just be a little bit in the shadow. It's like trying to be a little bit pregnant, I think. It's just you're in it. And here's the thing, there's no shame and there's no judgment about being in your shadow. It's natural. The shadow is there to protect us. So how can you step into your courage, lead from the heart, and in doing so, take the appropriate and it's usually action that takes you out of a shadow archetype. Take the appropriate action to step you into the light so you can live from the light. So, again, it's just accessing heart and courage is going to take you from below the line to above the line into your higher consciousness. And when you're in that state, you are present, you are fully in your power, you are more resourced, you're able to make better decisions, you're a more conscious human being. It's a win-win really.

1:14:00.8 Joseph Anew: I love it and I love that you mentioned you have to take action. Like, you have to take action. This is like the whole thing. It's like there's action and inaction. So sitting around, not doing the work, there's action in that and it might be going in the wrong direction.

1:14:17.8 Nasreen El-Mariesh: Yes.

1:14:18.4 Joseph Anew: Naz so the website is womenarethemedicine.co. Thank you so much. This has been...

1:14:23.8 Nasreen El-Mariesh: Correct.

1:14:24.2 Joseph Anew: A fabulous hour. What did we miss? Did we miss anything, Naz? Is there anything that I forgot to ask you? Or are there any other nuggets? Maybe final words for the audience in terms of something you'd love to share.

1:14:39.7 Nasreen El-Mariesh: I suppose. I really wanted to thank you and Third Wave for this opportunity. Because me deciding to follow my intuition and embark on the Third Wave integration coaching on CCP2 really has changed my life. And I spoke to you previously about how incredible the community is, but working with Third Wave has really... It was the instigating choice for me that has then led to this cascade of me really aligning to my purpose. So I would never have met Rachel, who's my business partner, I would never have been asked by Third Wave to help them with their cohort programs for CCP or to coach on their Personalized Psychedelic course. And I just wanted to say thank you because it's been an absolute blast and it's given me so much more than I ever, ever anticipated. Right? It's given me so much confidence in what I'm able to do and I wouldn't be here right now if I hadn't said yes to myself and yes to becoming an integration coach with Third Wave.

1:16:01.3 Joseph Anew: I love that. Me either. It really was quite a journey.

1:16:07.4 Nasreen El-Mariesh: And look where we are now.

1:16:08.6 Joseph Anew: Now we're on the phone with each other, it's great. I think the community element, apart from all of the education in CCP and our certification program, apart from the things that we teach and the experiences that we share with our students and participants in the course, I think a lot of people are surprised at the community, at the connections, at the network that is created in that certification program container. And so I appreciate you sharing that, Naz, and we're so fortunate to have you and other coaches like you coming through the program and really helping to safely and intentionally and responsibly kind of usher in this Third Wave as it's kind of nearing the shore and as psychedelics are becoming a little bit more mainstream, having the right people like yourself shepherding that is vital. And so we're so grateful to be a part of that and it's been quite a journey already.

1:17:08.5 Joseph Anew: So thank you so much for all the kind words and for being here today and for sharing. Do you want to mention, we'll put in the show notes, links to Women Are The Medicine and such, but maybe social media or any other places that people can find you if they heard this podcast and they're psyched, they want to call you, they want to work with you. What are their next steps?

1:17:29.5 Nasreen El-Mariesh: Yeah, absolutely. So we are on Instagram with Women Are The Medicine, and I'm on Instagram as well. It's my full name, Nasreen El-Mariesh. I know you'll put the links in and I'm really quite responsive and easy to get hold of. You can just message me and there's all sorts of ways that people can work with me, with psychedelics or without psychedelics. So, it's not an obligation. And I even work with men, how about that, Joseph?

1:17:54.3 Joseph Anew: Really?

1:17:56.4 Nasreen El-Mariesh: Yes.

1:17:57.6 Joseph Anew: All right, well, send me your application form, Naz.

1:17:59.5 Nasreen El-Mariesh: Yes. Okay, I'll do that.

1:18:01.0 Joseph Anew: I already had my discovery call so.

1:18:05.5 Nasreen El-Mariesh: You did. Make you stick your finger up your nose. All right, my dear.

1:18:07.0 Joseph Anew: That's right, everyone heard it. All right, Naz, thank you so much.

1:18:11.9 Nasreen El-Mariesh: Thank you. Take care now.

1:18:19.8 Joseph Anew: Hey, listeners, Joseph here. I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Naz. Remember to head over to the thirdwave.co/podcast to go deeper into this episode with full show notes, transcripts and all the links we mentioned in the conversation. That's thirdwave.co/podcast, and scroll down to episode 213 with Nasreen El-Mariesh. And if you think the Coaching Certification Program might be for you, do not forget to sign up for the free live webinar with myself and Paul F. Austin over at the thirdwave.co/Webinar. Next week, Paul F. Austin will be back as host with another great guest. Until next time, thank you for listening, everyone.