Cultivating Buddha Nature: A Psychedelic Exploration

Podcast Highlights

• Salimeh’s first Ayahuasca experience with the Yawanawa in the Amazon.
• Exploring different Ayahuasca lineages, from indigenous to neo-shamanistic.
• What Ayahuasca has taught Salimeh about non-duality.
• The importance of being a compassionate witness to psychedelic journeys.
• Why integrating psychedelics is so difficult.
• Salimeh’s components of enlightenment and awakening.
• Ayahuasca & Cannabis: Do they mix?
• Emphasizing reverence, consciousness & love in working with cannabis.

Show Links

1. Salimeh’s website
2. Salimeh on LinkedIn
3. Psychedelic Association of Canada
4. World Ayahuasca Conference
5. The União do Vegetal (UDV)
6. Santo Daime
7. Book, “I Am That” by Sri Maharaj
8. Brave Earth psychedelic retreat center
9. Shipibo Tradition
10. Episode 190: Jonathan Lu & Shauheen Etminan, Ph.D.
11. Episode 176: Ryan Sprague - The Power of Cannabis: Intentional Uses for Healing, Personal Growth & Optimization
12. Episode 190: Ancient Psychoactive Potions: Beta-Carbolines & Syrian Rue Jonathan Lu & Shauheen Etminan, Ph.D.
13. (guide) The Ultimate Guide to Ayahuasca
14. (blog) Learn About the Ayahuasca Dieta
15. (blog) What to Expect on an Ayahuasca Experience
16. (blog) Ayahuasca Integration: The Key To Lasting Personal Transformation

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Podcast Transcript

0:00:00.2 Paul Austin: Welcome back to the Psychedelic Podcast by Third Wave. Today I'm speaking with Salimeh Tabrizi, psychotherapist, coach, counselor, and healer.

0:00:12.9 Salimeh Tabrizi: I really feel like plants have activated us in different aspects and this is a time where it's not just the priests and the kings and the priestesses in the temples in Egypt or in Persia or in India or in the Mayan civilizations. It's each single one of us. We're really cultivating that Buddha nature, that non-dualistic presence and awareness and it's really self responsibility. So I find it to be incredible time whether it's Christ consciousness, we are all really sitting in it together if we're being called to the work.

[music]

0:00:54.1 Paul Austin: Welcome to the Psychedelic Podcast by Third Wave, audio mycelium, connecting you to the luminaries and thought leaders of the psychedelic renaissance. We bring you illuminating conversations with scientists, therapists, entrepreneurs, coaches, doctors, and shamanic practitioners. Exploring how we can best use psychedelic medicine to accelerate personal healing, peak performance, and collective transformation.

[music]

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0:04:39.6 Paul Austin: Hey, listeners. This is Paul Austin, founder and CEO at Third Wave and I'm so excited to have Salimeh Tabrizi on the podcast today. Salimeh and I first met at the World Ayahuasca Conference in 2016 in Rio Branco and since that point in time have continued to stay in touch. She's been quite involved with setting up and running a conference out of Vancouver, British Columbia, being part of the Canadian Psychedelic Association and just brings a wealth of knowledge, of course, but such a big heart and love to this space. And so we talked in this conversation about Ayahuasca and non-duality. We talked about the different lineages that are present with Ayahuasca, the Huni Kuin, the Yawanawa, the Daime, the UDV, and the different pros and cons of those different lineages. And then we went a little bit into this relationship between cannabis and Ayahuasca and how the two play off of each other or are even at odds with one another. So a really beautiful conversation and I do hope that you enjoy it as much as I do. All right, that's it for now. I hope you enjoy my conversation today with Salimeh Tabrizi.

0:05:57.7 Paul Austin: Welcome back to the Psychedelic Podcast. Today we have Salimeh Tabrizi, a plant medicine facilitator and integration coach who is joining us. Salimeh, welcome to the podcast.

0:06:10.2 Salimeh Tabrizi: Thank you, Paul. Good to see you and be with you again.

0:06:13.8 Paul Austin: It's great to be with you. So we have an interesting origin story. We both... We both chose to attend the World Ayahuasca Conference in Rio Branco many years ago. This was October, 2016. So well before this sort of psychedelic renaissance really blossomed. And we happened to both be staying at the same Airbnb and I think just briefly crossed paths at the Airbnb, made an acquaintance at the conference itself. And then here and there, we've run into each other at conferences and events. Most recently at a Trevor Hall concert in Miami. And I think we've been planning to do this podcast for maybe like 15, 16, 17 months, something like that. And so I'm really grateful that the stars aligned and we're able to have you on the show.

0:07:10.9 Salimeh Tabrizi: Thank you so much, Paul. Yeah, it's... I really trust the... I'm sure you do the divine opening and timing of everything these days. And just knowing that you're at Brave Earth right now in Costa Rica, and I'm here in the southern region of Costa Rica, close to Dominical. And yeah, it's just... I feel like it's perfect.

0:07:34.4 Paul Austin: So let's start with the World Ayahuasca Conference in 2016. Just as a thing to root in a little bit, what brought you to that conference? And at that point in time, where were you on this path of plant medicine, sacred plant medicine work?

0:07:53.3 Salimeh Tabrizi: Yeah, great. Great intro on opening. So what brought me to the Amazon at that time? I was... It was a time in my life, a very, very busy and activating time in my life where I was actually organizing the largest plant medicine Conference in Canada. It was more so a cannabis conference. It was the Cannabis Hemp Conference that took place from 2015 until 2018, and during that time, I was also working deeply with Ayahuasca. And so there was guidance to go and be in Brazil and connect with Ayahuasca in one of her natural homes. And to learn more about the indigenous ways and uses of Aya. And so when I went to the Conference, and a shout out to the ICEERS team and our colleagues in Spain who did a phenomenal job.

0:09:00.0 Salimeh Tabrizi: And during those six days there were many different medicine carriers who as you remember were there whether it was the Yawanawa or the Huni Kuin. There were so, or the Daime, the UDV. There were so many lineages that came together. And I had a chance actually just through serendipity to go into the Amazon right before the Conference started. This was a two day trek to go and see the Yawanawa through one of my contacts. And I went with two environmentalists, of course, I didn't speak any Portuguese. And through one day trek on the roads and one day trek on the boat on the Amazon, we reached the Yawanawa tribe. And there I was able to connect with Aya, in a setting that was so powerful for me because Aya was alone. And second, I was able to see that their connection to the medicine was so deep. And also to the Samauma tree, which was a grandmother tree, very much like the movie Avatar, where they would sit underneath this incredible encyclopedia knowledge of a tree and do their ceremonies and receive the guidance through the tree.

0:10:25.3 Salimeh Tabrizi: And so an experience similar to that. And then also Kambo, so having the experience of seeing the indigenous and how they work with the frogs and what kind of the rituals that take place. And received two pieces of guidance while I was in the Amazon. One was that through Kambo I'll always be protected. And second with the Samauma tree, the grandmother tree, that there was a reason that we were coming to the Amazon and it was to save the Amazon. And that's all I got at that time. And yeah, so came back and then the conference began and we met each other. And at that time, I remember, like, we were both kind of early on and you hadn't started, I don't think, Third Wave. And to see you from that moment on really accelerate and the expansiveness and the podcast and the microdosing coaching and everything that's come from that time for you is just wonderful to see that as well.

0:11:29.3 Paul Austin: Thank you. I appreciate that acknowledgement. And I'd love to hear you talk a little bit more about what was it like to sit with the Yawanawa and maybe a little bit about the traditions and lineages that you've sat with in Ayahuasca and some of the nuances and differences. Myself it's largely been with the Shipibo. I haven't sat with the Huni Kuin or the Yawanawa or the Daime. I have done a few, let's say, neo-shamanistic ceremonies, some in upstate New York. So I'd love just if you could sort of talk a little bit about those different lineages, what you've sat with, maybe some of the nuances and differences in those. That would be amazing.

0:12:19.6 Salimeh Tabrizi: Yeah, absolutely. You know this year was my 10 year anniversary with grandmother. And I feel so, so blessed to have had the experience of going to different lineages and ceremonies around the world through the weave and through the medicine's guidance. And, yeah, I feel that some of my strongest activations have actually been when I was first starting to work with Ayahuasca. So let me start, kind of start from the beginning. My first ceremony was with Guillermo, who has a controversial background, but I had an incredible experience with down in Yelapa, Mexico.

0:13:10.8 Salimeh Tabrizi: That was my very first ceremony. This was in 2014, and of course it was from the Shipibo lineage. And, I always say that my life before that ceremony and the Salome that emerged, the being that emerged after that ceremony, they're very different. And after 2014, that ceremony, I went back to Vancouver, and I started assisting in our own circles in Vancouver, in different parts of BC for two years. And those circles were very much a divine feminine energy. And so it wasn't specifically connected to any particular lineage, which I think is so fascinating about our times is that there can be a weaving.

0:14:02.5 Salimeh Tabrizi: But it was, yeah, it was, a mixture of Lakota, vocables that came through our main facilitator as well as some Shipibo aspects. I really feel like... And then my journey kind of took me through sitting with a Daime in the Portland Church, LA Church in Spain. And then one of the greatest moments was the UDV. So being in the União do Vegetal, around 200, I think 50 people in Brazil in a ceremony, and just in Acre as well. And so each transmission of the medicine and through the different cultural points that it comes through is fascinating to me. Barquinha being a smaller church in Brazil, and then the Santo Daime, and the Huni Kuin coming into the Santo Daime during the World Ayahuasca Conference, so the indigenous and the Daime connecting.

0:15:07.5 Salimeh Tabrizi: And then of course, like some listeners might know about this, but Petrina Apollo, who's an incredible meister from the Daime tradition. His son, Jordao, married Kunama, who is from the Yawanawa tradition. And so there's a bridge that happened in that regard. And I just love that there is a really beautiful unity consciousness that's happening even within the branches of Ayahuasca at this time. And many people might not know this, might think, "Okay, UDV is doing their thing and Daime is doing their thing." But I think at certain points we are coming into singularity. And for me it's incredibly exciting.

0:15:45.3 Paul Austin: And just to clarify for the listeners three, these three that you've mentioned, I mean, the indigenous groups, the Yawanawa, the Huni Kuin, the Shipibo are three of the indigenous holders. There's also the sort of Taita lineage, that is in Columbia as well. And then you also mentioned these three, the Daime, the UDV and the Barquinha, I believe.

0:16:14.7 Salimeh Tabrizi: Barquinha, yeah.

0:16:16.5 Paul Austin: Which are three syncretic Ayahuasca churches, two of which the UDV and the Daime can legally practice with their sacrament in the United States, the UDV in New Mexico and the Daime in Oregon is where that was specifically held. And all three of those are what are called syncretic religions for lack of a better term where they take elements of Christianity and weave it together with the sort of indigenous wisdom keeping of Ayahuasca and the sacred plant medicine. And it's often done in much more of, as you said, with UDV, 250 people in sort of a congregation compared to the Shipibo where often times with the Shipibo it's you're on your mat, it's completely pitch black, the maestros or maestras are singing Icarus to you and you're deep in your own process and deep in your own journey.

0:17:16.3 Paul Austin: So it just goes to show, and even compared to the Huni Kuin, the Huni Kuin it's often dancing, it's fire, it's more alive. So there's many different ways to work with the sacred plant medicine and I think a lot of it has to do with the intention of coming into the space. And in the UDV, the Santo Daime, it's much more about the congregation, the community, the coming together. Whereas what I've observed with, for example, the Shipibo lineage, and the reason I think a lot of Westerners are drawn to it is because it can be deeply healing to the psyche and to the soul, to be able to clear or integrate trauma, past lives, certain types of wounding. And that context of darkness and deep within allows for that as well.

0:18:06.8 Salimeh Tabrizi: Yes, exactly. Well said. I feel that there are different, kind of different reasons and means for the different transmissions and the different activations that Aya has created. For example, when I went to the Daime, it's true sometimes there are 60 people in the ceremony, they're sitting in daylight, men and women are separated. Sometimes it's not possible to go as deep as you would in the darkness like you're explaining in the Shipibo tradition. And so, but what I... Sometimes when I received guidances, for example, with the Daime, is that there are nodal points on the planet, certain grid markers that connect to, and again, listeners and friends, I always say don't believe anything I say. It's a subjective experience for all of us. Like we're all in our own realities and creating.

0:19:02.5 Salimeh Tabrizi: But if it resonates, what I was shown is that these nodal points with the Daime have a connection to an ethereal temple or palace where the light continues to kind of come in from the earth to the temples and to the temple down into the earth. And so when the... Within the Daime when they're singing and it's so much of the concentration is the firmness of the strength in the singing and the hymns. Then it's a focusing and a concentration in that and keeping the up leveling of the light. And so, I love that so much. And then again, in the Shipibo tradition, like you're saying, there's so much unpacking and so much of the physiological healing that happens with the body and the Icaros and the transmissions and the piercing energy of the Icaros. So I just love like, we're so blessed to have access points to what really resonates with us at this time.

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0:21:52.6 Paul Austin: I'm curious what Ayahuasca has taught you about non-duality. And maybe a good place to start is your understanding of non-duality and why these sacred plant medicines, Ayahuasca in particular, are such incredible medicines to go beyond subject object, go beyond sort of the dualistic worldview that we that... All of us have been really conditioned into more or less.

0:22:29.3 Salimeh Tabrizi: Yes, great question. And of course, I'm just learning as well and I think like all of us in this inquiry. And so I know we rests on the shoulders of giants, the non-dual sacred texts whether it's in Hinduism or Buddhism. One of my favorites that I constantly go to is the I Am That book, a sacred text of Sri Maharaj and I... Yes, I'm again, very grateful at this time because we can have the texts and then have a deep and again piercing connection to the experiential through plant medicines. And so before, maybe only certain meditators after many many years would have a glimpse of that non-dual state. And here we are in a time that we are able to sit with Ayahuasca or go into a 5-MeO-DMT experience and really experience that non-duality and have it be embodied in every cell of our being and then bring that into our life and try to ground it and stabilize it.

0:23:57.1 Salimeh Tabrizi: And so I feel so what the medicine has showed me in that regard. And I would love to hear your experience of that as well 'cause I know you're deeply on the path in that way. One of my deepest journeys and one of the hardest journeys that I've had with Ayahuasca was at the World Ayahuasca Conference in 2019 in Spain. And it was actually a Daime ceremony with Alex Polari who I have so much respect for. And during that nine hour journey, as the presence of Ayahuasca slowly came into the space as it does, I just started to see images of a potential timeline on our planet where there was intense loss of life due to death because of climate issues. So whether it was volcanoes or fires or earthquakes and I just started to see the cataclysmic-ish events that could potentially take place. And it was so hard on me because as an empath, I couldn't look away but I was also in just an entrapment of what was happening, the fear, the sadness, the loss and I was crying and crying. And a few different messages came through in that, one was that...

0:25:36.7 Salimeh Tabrizi: In this lifetime, enlightenment to survival and survival is enlightenment. And I feel like the medicine was just trying to say that we are at this place where if we are not in full compassion and non-duality, we will actually go towards fear. And whether that means illness or it means actual death or losing our footing in this way that there could be a potential that we would go off into one direction. And the second lesson was that there will be a time the medicine just showed me that there would be a time where it doesn't matter what car we drive, what job we do, the connection to our family, none of it was going to matter except our connection to source and that non-dual state of pure awareness. And that was going to be the anchor that was going to allow us to potentially move into the next era or level of consciousness whether it's on the, in this realm or somewhere else. So that was the second lesson and the third lesson, the final lesson was around what potentially human beings would be doing. And it was very much around prayer and song.

0:27:03.1 Salimeh Tabrizi: The medicine said there will be a time, and I feel like it's like when musical chairs, like when the music stops, similar to what happened with COVID which I think is in some ways like a trailer of potentially what's to come when the music stops, you are going to be where you're going to be. And at that time, there potentially will be so much going on on the planet that it's really about prayer and song and we'll be sitting and in that space of devotion. And so it was very hard. I eventually left the ceremony, sat underneath the moon, underneath a tree and just grounded myself. And I really oftentimes asked questions like "Why, why are we here? Why are we taking so much medicine? Why was I shown this?" And I think the other part of non-duality which has been very helpful for me is to not put any meaning to it either that this was just a ceremony and just some visions that came through. And that it doesn't have to be anything. It doesn't have to be a timeline. So not grasping to it either. And just allowing, again, the moment breath and awareness to just be that.

0:28:18.6 Paul Austin: Why, that's a great thing to anchor in because so often we hear people who... There's something very profound and real about transmissions that comes through with plant medicines. And the beautiful aspect of those transmissions is as we've even talked about in this episode so far, they can be guidance for how to navigate sort of the messy fabric of existence. And the flip side of that is at times there can be an over attachment, an over-indexing. We can give up too much of our power in a way to those transmissions and sometimes make decisions from those insights that may actually be more harmful than helpful. And so what I'm hearing you say is, it's almost like the sort of Buddhist lens of non-attachment, right? Observe as these insights come through, be with them and potentially even the emotions that they unearth, but don't necessarily become manic or apocalyptic or too attached to "Oh my gosh, the world is gonna end in five years or oh my gosh, like, what are we doing and why?" Like those moments are okay to have because they open up awareness, but they can also be so disorienting that for some people they have a hard time recovering to a normal, stable base once again.

0:30:10.9 Salimeh Tabrizi: Absolutely. Absolutely. It's such a great point because, yeah, one of my mentors who I worked with for eight years and he was very much in the non-duality tradition. And he would say that's opening our heart and looking inside can oftentimes be very painful because of the traumas and fears and beliefs and desires that are inside. And the medicine amplifies that and brings that, illuminates it and brings it up into our perspective so that we can transmit it and we can see it. Absolutely. I agree with you. And the underlying foundation, which I feel is so important for our times is to really rest in a place of witnessing and even not separated from the witnessing, but in what I love the Maharaj, the way that he speaks about it is actually through affectionate awareness of everything that is, and everything that is present, present for us, which is such a deep study to yes, being non-attached, but also in this kind of softening of the affectionate, compassionate, embrace of it all. And I think, wow, if that is what we're doing here on this planet at this time, like we are going to increase our vibration so much that we're going to feel so much more. And from that point, not get lost in the feelings also like you're saying, but also be in complete witness to it.

0:31:57.9 Paul Austin: And that's, it's hard to describe with language because language is bounded by time. And with these non-dual experiences, we often go to a place that is beyond the comprehension of the rational mind, if you will. And so even these insights or downloads, the point that you made, I think, is really prescient which is like... There, it wasn't like this is gonna happen in a year or two years or three years. It was a feeling of an experience of this is coming if we stay on this path. But also recognizing and realizing that the constructs of time that we've created don't necessarily run parallel with how the plants think about time. And that, I just came out of this Dieta which was nine days of silence, five ceremonies, the Dieta master plant.

0:33:02.6 Paul Austin: And one thing I kept coming back to in that entire experience was that these plants that we're working with, their intelligence is so old, it's archaic, a hundred million years old if you're working with some of these master plants that they've been on the planet. And so when I even think about or sort of reflect on this non-dual lens, the spaciousness that sacred plant medicines open up, it really is this connection to earth as the divine mother. And that the healing so oftentimes when we as those of us who have lived in sort of a western context, western mind for many, many years, oftentimes the healing is in that reconnection to nature. And the teachings of that from a more, let's say, animist indigenous, archaic lens.

0:34:11.9 Salimeh Tabrizi: That deeply resonates because the times that I have also connected, especially, with the mushroom medicine, I feel like each one of them has their own, of course, frequency. Aya is quite cosmic. Iboga is the soul. It's like a right deep into the ancient roots of the self. Cannabis for me is very tantric. It's the body, but also it really is pristine in showing the places of the thoughts that are not serving and clearing the mind space. And then mushrooms are very earthy. They're very, the mycelium and the connection too in every aspect of nature. And so I just love that we're feeling more and more, not only are we empathizing more with ourselves and having self-care and self-love, but also for each other, but more importantly our earth. I feel into... Some of the visions that I received, it's not that it's necessarily coming in the future.

0:35:25.6 Salimeh Tabrizi: We saw what happened in 2019, 2020 with the fires in Australia and California, BC, Europe. This is not, it's not that far away from what our experience is. And so one other piece that I've really received from the medicine especially with 5-MeO is that connection to source. And when I felt that hand of spirit or God or whatever you want to call it on my back and had the complete reverence, well, all I could do was just cry in the majesty of what is. And like you're saying, our little mind, I was just awe stricken for 24 hours I was in that space and couldn't really come back into this reality. But to think about that that is our guiding light and that is potentially our... That's what we're anchoring into. And that's what I keep getting from the medicine is lest we forget that that's what it is, this life is so majestic.

0:36:40.8 Salimeh Tabrizi: And once we clear out a lot of the under layers of those traumas, intergenerational traumas, and I have so much the respect for everybody. Like you just talk about the Dieta. You went into nine days of silence, five ceremonies. This isn't... This kind of work is not a joke. It requires so much dedication and so much surrender and trust that we're gonna come out the other side different. And then the integration of putting that aspect of remembrance into every single breath and every single moment of being with ourselves. So it's incredible times. I find that it's... There's a lot of miracles that are happening and when I look at our lineage. So you had Shauheen and his team on your podcast, I think a couple of episodes ago.

0:37:45.1 Salimeh Tabrizi: And I'm Iranian as well and I really look at the times in history where we've had transmissions and activations where human consciousness has taken a leap. And when I think about, for example, Zoroastrianism being the first monotheistic religion that came to be, they were working with Haoma, they were working deeply with Syrian Rue, which is the cousin of Ayahuasca. It has some of the very similar aspects of coming into presence and guidance. And so that activated 4,000 years ago a religion that came out and affected Judaism and Buddhism and Hinduism. And then in Buddhism and Hinduism, there is, in the Vedics, in the ancient texts, they talk about Soma which, many scholars say it could be Syrian rue, it could be certain...

0:38:44.0 Salimeh Tabrizi: Strains of mushrooms. It could actually be cannabis, it could be a synergetic mixture. You guys talked about potions and the alchemy of the different kinds of plants and fungi working together. And we had Buddhism in some ways came out of that and so I really feel like similar to what you're saying, plants have activated us in different aspects. And this is a time where it's not just the priests and the kings and the priestesses in the temples in Egypt or in Persia or in India or in the Mayan civilizations. It's each single one of us, we're really cultivating that Buddha nature, that non-dualistic presence and awareness and it's really self-responsibility. So I find it to be incredible time whether it's Christ consciousness, we are all really sitting in it together. If we're being called to the work, of course, it's not for everybody and some people have incredible ways of being non-dualistic without medicine and without tradition. So I also honor the path of those beings that are just naturally in that state as well.

0:40:01.2 Paul Austin: Yeah, the metaphor I love to draw there is like this sort of blossoming of a lotus flower and in sort of from a historical lens that blossoming would happen, but it would happen rarely. There were certain mystics people who had natural awakenings. There were certainly plant medicine although a lot of that from a historical lens has been covered, although, it's now coming back, back out in the open. But at the end of the day, it was quite rare to be a mystic. And what's really interesting about our modern times, there's a phenomenal quote by Edward O Wilson which is we have the technology... "We have God-like technology, medieval institutions and paleolithic emotions", and a lot of what psychedelics, but also breathwork, neurofeedback, there's a lot of tools and technology, some which are ancient, some which are very modern that can actually help us to stabilize at that place of equanimity at that place of buddha hood.

0:41:24.4 Paul Austin: And to stabilize at that state, I think, is required as a balance to this god-like technology that we now have access to because if we don't approach it from a, not just a state, but a trait of enlightenment and massive awareness than as we've already experienced with things like social media and other aspects of technology, there's a lot of shadow in that and that shadow gets amplified in a significant way through globalization, through the internet, through these other forms. And so I feel like what's being called for through this work is instead of just having one Buddha, how can we help more and more people blossom into these lotus flowers.

0:42:19.2 Paul Austin: And to do that in contextual settings which support it. I think the other talking point that I'll often make or emphasize when this comes up is one of the reasons integration is so difficult is because we have these incredible experiences and so many of us then go back into a job or a lifestyle that is in no way supportive of that state. And so it feels like what you and I know, I'm sure, and even many listeners have heard, at least, a story or two about people who are buying land in Costa Rica or Mexico or Portugal or setting up a center, setting up residential communities, right? I feel like through this medicine work, there's more and more of a call to re-indigenize our mind, our body, our internal orientation. So that way there is no integration. It's simply this is the medicine work that we do to stay connected to the environment that we've chosen to be within. And that environment is supportive of this sort of Buddha hood of this what I would even say, the connection, the reconnection to nature, to animism, to reality without the constructs of dogmatic religion or consumerism, materialism all these sorts of things.

0:43:46.5 Salimeh Tabrizi: Yeah. Again, beautifully said. That's it. It's creating, and again, I have to be careful with words because again in the work that I did with my mentor, it was so much about seeing the world as perfect without any kind of and again, in the non-dualistic tradition without any kind of desire to want it to be different. And at the same time holding the vibration of peace, relaxation, health, awareness, and from that having the divine inspiration to take the next step. And so it's so intricate, and I love being able to speak with someone like you or other peers and individuals in our communities that can hold both the duality, that there can be inspired action and change, and also that nothing needs to be done at the same time.

0:45:03.2 Salimeh Tabrizi: And yet, how do we hold each other while going through these massive processes? And I feel like the trinity right now that's happening, and you touched upon it, is of course the yogic and meditative practices that is foundational right now. Just very simplifying our life into breath and even 10 minutes of meditation every day where we're just in stillness and sitting in that. And then, of course, psychedelics and plant medicines which allow us the window into divinity. We can see, feel, embody what that feels like, and then come back and then access it more and more in our meditation. And then the third pillar which, I think, is so important these days is the somatics. And so the trauma from the body and being able to, you know, really cellularly feel, feel ourselves and then the harmony, you know, Ahimsa non harm to our environment.

0:46:06.9 Salimeh Tabrizi: And I think as our vibration starts to change, I know for myself, I couldn't, there were many years where I was in Vancouver, there were many years that I was supporting in ceremonies in California. And now through guidance, I'm here and my nervous system requires a different kind of environment. But I feel like as energy start to raise, all of us are going to want to have that. And it doesn't matter if we're in a city or if we're in a rural area, we are all going to, through our own presence, cultivate that and things I feel from that space will shift. And different decisions will come. We will slow down, we will do much less. Like you're saying, there will be more potentially tribal ways of being with each other, whether it's in a city like communities, communities of the future will form.

0:47:06.0 Salimeh Tabrizi: I know at least in Costa Rica, that's definitely something that is already a part of the culture here. Like, I will go to our market and I know the farmer who picked the papaya that I'm eating or we have our own access to the fruits and the plants and being able to touch the plant that I'm going to ingest right before... All of these things are, I feel human. It's a basic human rights and we've moved away from it, sadly. And so, by just stillness, we're gonna, I feel like come back into our priorities of what health and wellness needs to be. And I'll... I know I'm going off on a bit of a tangent, but I'll add this as well, I always share with my clients, I think like we're probably the same age. So I don't know if you were in, when you were in high school, Paul, like you, did you, do your teachers have that machine, the projector machine that they would put the...

0:48:10.6 Paul Austin: Oh yeah.

0:48:11.9 Salimeh Tabrizi: Right. Like the laminator [chuckle] the laminated form on, and they would scribble the notes and it would be projected onto, and you would take down the notes.

0:48:19.2 Paul Austin: They don't use that. They don't use that anymore? That's...

0:48:21.6 Salimeh Tabrizi: I don't think so. Now I think it's like linked up to the computer and then...

0:48:27.3 Paul Austin: I'm sure.

0:48:27.8 Salimeh Tabrizi: Projected. Right. I know so many things. It's so funny, things have gone obsolete. But I share with my clients, I say, okay, first we're all projectors and if you have a lens that's covered with trauma or fear or negative thought patterns or unhealthy body that's being projected onto the reality that you're looking at and we know that we're co-creating our reality all the time. And so if things are happening in your world, okay, there's a lesson, but you're also in this involvement, co-creation of it. So first thing is we clear our lens of these things and then project more light. That's what it is, right? We wanna project and be conduits of light. And then also the system has to be plugged in.

0:49:22.1 Salimeh Tabrizi: So are you plugged in to source every day through sleep, through meditation, through a great diet, through healthy thoughts, healthy actions, healthy deeds? And from time to time, are you maintaining the machinery? Do you have a fine tuned machine? And I feel like I talk to people and right away, first thing I ask my clients, I'm like, "Are, do you have pain? Are you sleeping well?" And I know for you that you've talked a lot about sleep and meditation and basic, basic frequency in your body. Is it well functioning? Because the light can't fully come in if you are not in a system that can't even receive that vibration. And so its, again, just incredibly exciting to be in a time where we have access to alkaline water and magnet therapy and somatic trauma release, yoga and, breath work and so many different healing support system, acupuncture, to be able to help our body to be well tuned for this level of enlightenment and awakening.

0:50:36.2 Paul Austin: Beautiful share. Thank you for weaving all of that together. I'd love to slight shift, but it's a point or a question that I wanted to ask which is about this relationship between cannabis and Ayahuasca. And there are some traditions, I believe certain, lineages of the Daime. Even the Huni Kuin, who they call it, I believe Santa Maria will weave cannabis in with the Ayahuasca. And there are other lineages like I believe the UDV, I certainly know the Shipibo are very not down with cannabis whatsoever. I'd love if you could just talk a little bit about... How you think about that.

0:51:24.0 Paul Austin: The relationship between the two. One thing I've talked a lot about on this, on this podcast is my relationship with cannabis. How it's been a little, I would say, difficult. And I'm with the Shipibo dieta, it's no cannabis for a month before. No cannabis for a month after. It's more, it's likely I will continue that for the foreseeable future of abstinence, simply because I've had a, I would say a challenging relationship with it over the last few years. And yet there are some people who they can, they use it intentionally. It can be a really beautiful medicine. So what are some of your just thoughts and perspectives on kind of those two plants, how they work together, how they don't work together? Maybe your experience with them.

0:52:09.8 Salimeh Tabrizi: For sure. What are, yeah, what a, I love this question so much because I have a deep respect for both plants. And I'm curious, before I share to, too, Paul, I haven't heard you speak about your relationship with cannabis. And if you don't mind sharing a little bit of where that is now, and maybe what it has been in the past, and lessons and guidance. Love to hear.

0:52:36.8 Paul Austin: So, yeah. My experience with cannabis has been initially very... It was a helpful plant ally for social anxiety, for inner exploration. I started smoking cannabis when I was 16. In college I did it a little bit more maybe once a week. And then I was pretty removed from it for a few years in my early 20s until I moved to New York City. And then the intensity and the stress of living in New York had me pick it up and smoke considerably more. And so from that was about five years ago, five and a half years ago. And so from that point in time, it's been more often than I would like. Sometimes every day. There are times when I go a week or two weeks or a month without it, but I notice I have a tendency where it just, it impacts my sleep in a negative way.

0:53:47.7 Paul Austin: I'm not quite as sort of sharp and clear. I'm a bit more lethargic so my motivation drops. And I find that if I start to engage with it, it feels like I've... I lose control to it to some degree meaning that there's a compulsion that starts to arise around "Oh, I, this feels really good. I'm enjoying it a lot. I'm just gonna now, you know, I haven't smoked in a month. I'm now gonna do this every day for the next three weeks," or something like that. So it's hard for me to find a proper balance with it as a plant. It's like either feast or famine. And so that's why I've landed like better to take a full year of abstinence just to reset. And then if I do choose to re-engage, to do so in a more let's say like ceremonial and intentional container rather than just sort of smoking spliffs and joints casually with friends or whatever that might look like.

0:54:53.3 Salimeh Tabrizi: I so appreciate you sharing, and I feel that so many individuals are in this kind of relationship that you've spoken of with cannabis. They had a early connection, an allyship. Like you're saying about 16 it started. And then there's times where it becomes an addiction or like a really strong crutch, and it does take away the chi like you're saying. Your sleep gets affected and the focus gets affected. And so I feel that cannabis is such an, is such a fascinating plant. And yeah, I'll share with you. So I was working with Ayahuasca in circles in BC for two years and one day I had this meditation where I wasn't ingesting anything, but the spirit of cannabis came through in my meditation. Suddenly I was... I see this feminine energy, and I know plants are non-dualistic, of course.

0:55:54.5 Salimeh Tabrizi: Like we don't even know what energy is behind these allies and teachers like, yeah, that's for maybe for a different conversation. But the spirit of cannabis, at least, in this vision, came through as a feminine energy. And I've shared the story before where she was incredibly furious, infuriated. And she said that she was so angry about being misused, misunderstood, and to even to the point of being prostituted. And she wants reverence just like the other master plants and fungi. And so from that activation the inspiration for a conference came to be, and right now I know that we have... Cannabis has just opened up the whole, it's, it was the gatekeeper. It opened up so much of the conversations around plant medicine and psychedelics. And right now it's an abundant plant. And so there's a lot of money and issues around... Yeah, it's the corporate side of cannabis is something that really hurts my heart because there's not a lot of the reverence and the sacred connection with it. And it's also very forgiving. It's a, I feel like it's a nurse. It's almost like a nurse energy whereas Ayahuasca is a surgeon. You can't mess with Ayahuasca, it will kick our butts if we're not in respect to it.

0:57:33.2 Salimeh Tabrizi: And same with Iboga or the alkaloid, Ibogaine. You just cannot do that but cannabis is definitely more supportive, more compassionate, more forgiving, as I said. And so coming into right integrity and alignment with all the plants, especially if we're on the plant medicine path is so important. And I feel that the medicine in some ways, right, is showing us our anxiety level. I think right now, one of the biggest things that we're working on, and I see it across the board from my clients is actually fear and desire. And anxiety is the transmission of fear. And so by us not going into a crutch mode whether it's micro-dosing anything, micro-dosing or being with cannabis, if we can say, okay, how do I reach those states of relaxation? Like you're saying, right? Cannabis gives you enjoyment, it gives you relaxation, it gives you a sense of ease.

0:58:31.2 Salimeh Tabrizi: How do we get into those states of relaxation and ease and presence without using the medicine? So does that mean there's something else that needs to be looked at? What is, is there fear? Have we really looked at our relationship with the epitome of all fears which is death? Have we come into that ego disillusion fully? And if not, what does that take? Does it take an Ibogaine journey? Does it take a 5-MeO-D journey? Does it take a dark meditation retreat or a silent meditation retreat with yoga? So, okay, what I always ask myself, what's the next layer for myself? What's the, you know, what am I not, what have I not cleared? And the marker for that is always meditation. If I can sit in my 15 -minute or 30 -minute meditation in a good way, and again, non-dualistic in just a present way with no aches and pains and completely open and aware, then great. But if there's something that comes up, okay, it's an inquiry. If there's a pain, it's a messenger, you know? So I just love that your...

0:59:49.2 Salimeh Tabrizi: It sounds like a lot of respect and reverence for the plant and taking time away from it so that you can see what else comes up because cannabis tends to also just kind of calm the system up until a certain point where it doesn't anymore. So, yeah, for me, cannabis, we're just at the tip of the iceberg for cannabis. And for me, my use with it is it, I can, I think there are two camps of people with cannabis. The functioning ones who can connect socially and enjoy and relax. And then there are individuals that maybe like me that I have to be alone. I can only connect through music. It's prayer for me. It's devotional. I get a lot of insights. I have to write things down. It's very tantric.

1:00:40.1 Salimeh Tabrizi: I feel very embodied in my sexuality and being able to connect with a partner in that way. It opens up these kinds of channels. And again, I can only use the smallest amount and very infrequently. Like it is just as strong of an Ayahuasca journey. And I have to go into it with the same reverence and prayer and space and dieta and intention. And so I hope, and I really, my prayer is that cannabis... Individuals working with cannabis can bring this level of attention and consciousness and love for the plant. And then it'll open up, I think, many, many gateways. Yeah. A longer answer to your question.

1:01:26.4 Paul Austin: Thank you for that share. It's a topic that I often reflect on. We were talking about it at dinner the other night, and one hypothesis that came up also was men may relate to the plant different than women as well in terms of that spirit, that ally. Like cannabis use, especially a lot of cannabis use can lower testosterone levels. And so for men that, like for me, I feel that in terms of my motivation, focus and attention tends to suffer. And I've had some really magical like you said, magical and beautiful experiences with partners or in more intentional spaces. And so I think holding that level of reverence like we do for these other sacred plant medicines, Ayahuasca, Iboga, 5, whatever it is a good way to land that relationship.

1:02:33.9 Salimeh Tabrizi: Exactly, exactly. And I do feel, yeah, the relationship between men and cannabis at times it is a sense of almost like awakening the feminine within. And so the feminine wants to relax and be in self-care and self-enjoyment and not in the masculine like you're saying, point A to point B, motivation and get things done and focus which is a beautiful part of the masculine. We have that balance within ourselves. And I really feel like a lot of our work is to balance those energies at these times. However, the masculine side, I think, on our planet has been, we know this, right? It's imbalanced. And the prophets just talk about this, right? The condor and the eagle prophecy talk about the condor and the eagle flying together, and the eagle being the more masculine and the condor being more of the feminine. And so I love that cannabis is reminding you like, "Come, enjoy, rest. You do so much great work. Now take time for yourself." And if we do that more, I feel that it won't be, maybe it won't be necessary. And I speak for myself too, the balance of self -care and being in the ocean or being in the sacred waters, putting that in my calendar, just as importantly as a meeting and time of connection with a friend or a colleague.

1:04:05.0 Paul Austin: Well, we're out of time. We started a little, we had a little bit of time to connect before, and then as we were recording, we had a bit of a glitch. So I wanna be mindful of those parameters. I'm just so grateful that we had a chance and an opportunity to record this. Thank you for sharing everything you've shared on non-duality on the different lineages and traditions, on yours, so much richness in your own experience with these medicines in particular, Ayahuasca, but also cannabis 5-MeO. So I just wanna thank you again for taking the time, for being here with us and sharing a little bit of your wisdom with us on the podcast today.

1:04:52.4 Salimeh Tabrizi: Thank you, Paul. Yeah, it's been a wonderful, really present conversation and time of connection and I so appreciate your reflections and your depth and ability to really follow also your intuitive guidance from the medicine work and bring it into the 3D and support and hold the container for so many through these times of weaving and support. So, yeah, so great to be connecting with you two and looking forward to, inshallah, seeing you in Costa Rica, hopefully in the fall.

1:05:29.8 Paul Austin: I can't wait.

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