The Connection Experience: Psychedelics & Reinvigorating Relationships

Podcast Highlights

• Cory and Jay’s relationship story.
• The slow drift apart that called for a couples intervention.
• Cory and Jay celebrate their 25th anniversary with MDMA.
• How psychedelics impacted Cory and Jay’s entrepreneurial lives.
• How the Connection Experience couples retreat was born.
• The power of MDMA in couples therapy.
• How to connect with Jay & Cory.

Show Links

1. The Connection Experience
2. Jay & Cory’s Facebook Page: “Love Sex and Psychedelics”
3. Connection Experience “Fireside Chat” Q&A video
4. Nonviolent Communication
5. (blog) Psychedelics and Sex: A Powerhouse Combination
6. (guide) The Ultimate Guide to MDMA

This episode is sponsored by CURED Nutrition's Serenity Gummies — Functional mushrooms + microdose THC for great relief without the high. This unique blend of mushrooms, adaptogens, and cannabinoids is potent and amazing for unwinding at the end of the day (like a glass of wine!) or helping you get to sleep at night. Pop two gummies and put your feet up and relax.
Get 15% off by using coupon code “THIRDWAVE” at checkout.

This podcast is brought to you by Third Wave’s Mushroom Grow Kit. The biggest problem for anyone starting to explore the magical world of mushrooms is consistent access from reputable sources. That’s why we’ve been working on a simple, elegant (and legal!) solution for the past several months. Third Wave Mushroom Grow Kit and Course has the tools you need to grow mushrooms along with an in-depth guide to finding spores.

Looking for an aligned retreat, clinic, therapist or coach? Our directory features trusted and vetted providers from around the world. Find psychedelic support or apply to join Third Wave’s Directory today.

Podcast Transcript

0:00:00.3 Paul Austin: Welcome back to the Psychedelic Podcast by Third Wave, today I am speaking with Jay and Cory Fiset, the co-founders of the Connection Experience.

0:00:11.6 Jay Fiset: And so we, on that night, did MDMA together for the very first time, had this spectacular and amazing experience. We redid our vows, we recommitted to one another in terms of what we'd call our next 25 years or our next 10,000 days. And that began a six week cycle of us getting away from the world and intentionally using psychedelics to serve and support our connection, our healing, our evolution, and our presence, and that quite literally transformed us.

0:00:45.9 Paul Austin: Welcome to the Psychedelic Podcast by Third Wave. Audio mycelium, connecting you to the luminaries and thought leaders of the psychedelic renaissance. We bring you illuminating conversations with scientists, therapists, entrepreneurs, coaches, doctors, and shamanic practitioners, exploring how we can best use psychedelic medicine to accelerate personal healing, peak performance, and collective transformation.

0:01:22.6 Advertisement: When the world feels crazy and chaotic, remember that you don't have to, you deserve to take control of your mental and physical health and CURED Nutrition has arrived to make it easier for you to do exactly that. Formulated with their trinity of ingredients, a blend of full spectrum cannabinoids, functional mushrooms and adaptogens. Serenity Gummies are your answer to finding the calm in every storm. CURED wants you to feel good about feeling good, so they took their time formulating their Serenity Gummies, they left out the artificial flavors, sugars, and dyes, and replaced them with ingredients that actually help you thrive.

0:02:04.4 Advertisement: I recently brought a whole bag of CURED Nutrition, Serenity Gummies, to the Third Wave team retreat in California. And let's just say that I didn't have anything left to bring home, they were a huge hit because they're perfect midday to ease stress and enhance creativity, probably due to the high dose of Altheine that makes you extremely stress resilient, and it really helps me enhance my sleep while curbing any end of day cravings for that hint of sweetness. And the sleep benefit is likely due to the Reishi Mushrooms, the Ashwagandha, and of course the CBD that they contain. Right now CURED is extending an exclusive offer to our Psychedelic podcast listeners, you can grab a bag of Serenity Gummies for 15% off by visiting curednutrition.com/thirdwave, that's curednutrition C-U-R-E-D nutrition.com/thirdwave and use coupon code Third Wave at checkout to save on your Serenity Gummies.

0:03:04.2 Paul Austin: Hey, listeners, I'm so excited to have Jay and Cory on the show today. Jay and Cory are partners, they're a husband and wife team that have been in relationship for 37 years, and they reinvented both themselves and their relationship after 25 years of marriage through the intentional use of psychedelic medicine. They now offer intentional safe and intimate medicine experiences for those who are committed, couples who are committed to discover, express, and connect with themselves and each other. They are certified psychedelic guides focused on supporting couples, and their work draws upon 30 plus years of facilitating intense personal development programs, individual coaching and leading experiential workshops and retreats for couples.

0:03:49.9 Paul Austin: I had the opportunity to meet Jay a couple months ago, we were introduced through a mutual friend and it turns out that Jay has been on Third Wave's email list and had really loved our content, and we instantly hit it off, and when I heard a little bit more about what they were up to, in Alberta and their own story of how MDMA had really helped to heal their relationship and how they were now creating very intentional containers for those in their community, I really wanted to get them on the podcast just so you all could hear a really boots on the ground story to how couples are using MDMA to not only heal their marriages and their relationships, but also sharing, that experience with others.

0:04:29.4 Paul Austin: And so we talked about their introduction to MDMA, their first MDMA experiences, when it finally really clicked some of the challenges and friction that were present in their relationship and how MDMA helped to heal those challenges, and overall, it was just a really heartwarming, beautiful story, as well as very informative in terms of how their story relates to your story or maybe a couple that you might know. Okay, without further ado, I bring you Jay and Cory Fiset.

0:05:00.6 Paul Austin: Hey, listeners, welcome back to the psychedelic podcast, today we have Jay and Cory Fiset joining us from Calgary, Alberta. Jay and Cory have a really special story, both as a couple and also now through the Connection Experiences that they are facilitating up in Calgary. And Jay and Cory, it's an honor to have you on, thank you for joining us for the podcast.

0:05:25.6 Jay Fiset: Paul, we deeply appreciate it, so thanks so much for having us.

0:05:28.1 Cory Fiset: Yeah, thank you. [laughter] Looking forward to this.

0:05:30.9 Paul Austin: So, the sort of standard template that I use when having a couple people on the show, and specifically now, like a romantic couple, you've been together for many, many, many, many years, I'd love if you could just tell our audience a little bit about your connection story, how did you meet, when did you meet, why did you meet and what have the past 30 plus years been like as a couple and being together?

0:05:55.5 Jay Fiset: I gonna let you start that [laughter]

0:06:00.5 Cory Fiset: That's an easy one how we met. We are high school sweethearts, so we met, and originally we met at, not to get into all the details.

0:06:05.9 Paul Austin: No, please.

0:06:07.4 Cory Fiset: But at a high school dance and caught each other's eye and started dating. I was in grade 10, Jay was in grade 11, so we were young. I was 17, I think 16, 17, 18 when we started dating, and yeah so long time ago, just kids, we didn't know any better about, [chuckle] we were just finding our way in the world and I hadn't, I don't know too many details, but you'd had more relationships than I had, but I was very smitten with him, and so fast forward now, we've been married 27 years and together 10 prior to that, so it's.

0:06:50.3 Paul Austin: Wow.

0:06:50.4 Cory Fiset: We've had a long courtship, been a long line years together.

0:06:53.3 Jay Fiset: And we should clarify, even the 10 years prior to that, we spent about five years apart, meaning that we weren't like exclusively mutually dating that we were, had to sort of play the field a little bit and find out what else was out there. But we were always in relationship. Like, for example, I had a business that went bankrupt, and I did, I wanted to go back to school, I didn't have enough money, we weren't dating, but she loaned me the money to get back to college.

0:07:15.7 Paul Austin: Wow.

0:07:16.0 Jay Fiset: After a business failure. So when I say we were in a relationship, we were still genuinely friends and with and for one another, even if we weren't dating.

0:07:24.7 Cory Fiset: Yeah, that's absolutely true.

0:07:26.8 Jay Fiset: Although I do wanna tell one other story, do you wanna add to that?

0:07:30.0 Cory Fiset: No.

0:07:30.3 Jay Fiset: No. Which is the night of that dance, we end up at a house party afterwards and we're catching each other's eye, but, neither of us was let's say bold enough to go and have a conversation. And I happened to be talking with a friend of mine. I can just see something coming through the air towards me. And as I look up, I get hit right here with a plastic shoe, and I look over and she's wearing one shoe, and her best friend took the other shoe and threw it at me. So I just held onto the shoe all night long knowing that she'd have to come talk to me before she went home, and that's how we got, had our first initial conversation which was, I wasn't giving her a shoe back.

[chuckle]

0:08:05.2 Paul Austin: Sounds like a very much a high school dance thing, that, went to...

0:08:07.7 Jay Fiset: Totally, completely.

0:08:10.1 Paul Austin: So one interesting element of your story is high school sweethearts, you meet at the dance, Cory's friend throws a shoe at Jay he holds onto it. And then over the next 10 years, you were sort of in and out of an intimate, romantic relationship. And I'd love if you could just tell a little bit more about our listeners, about how did you navigate that space? What was that like for you? Maybe what were some of the challenges and difficulties of that 10 years of navigating in and out of relationship?

0:08:39.6 Jay Fiset: Yeah. Well, and to be clear, it wasn't really 10 years, and I can actually put some timeframe around this that might help. So I started a business, moved away 1986. We had dated all of '85, all of '86, and then we were apart in that timeframe from there until about 1991. So it was really about 5 years of where we were doing that dance back and forth and I really think that the key for me is that we were, we became genuine friends that we cared about one another. Like she was sick and seeing other people. But I'm the one who's taking her to the hospital.

0:09:18.8 Paul Austin: Wow.

0:09:20.5 Jay Fiset: I had a business that blew up and I went to back to college to take businesses admin. I didn't have two nickels for up together. She loaned me the money to go back to school. Like we were always still there for one another in both the good and the bad times. And I think for, and I'll speak for my part, is that, it was never a question of did we care about one another, it was a question of were we mature enough, smart enough, evolved enough to actually make a relationship work. And in that context, we were teenage kids, raising each other, growing up with one another, and we made a ton of mistakes, and at the end of the day, still loved each other and cared about each other and therefore ended up together, does does that make more sense?

0:10:04.7 Paul Austin: Absolutely, yeah. Cory, do you wanna add to that?

0:10:09.2 Cory Fiset: Just that when we've had conversations about that time, we've talked about an invisible thread or cable or something that just kept bringing us back together. And the other side of that through the last few years too, is recognizing for ourselves and for a lot of couples we've worked with, is there's also like core wounds that you have that bring you together. It's the side that people don't really like to talk about. [laughter] The love and the sexual attraction and there was the fun and the being kids and partying and just spending all this great time together, getting to know each other. But there's also other reasons that we always end up together or in each other's orbit. So there's been some healing and conversation around that as well.

0:10:54.6 Jay Fiset: Far greater understanding today than ever in our life.

0:10:57.0 Cory Fiset: Yeah.

0:10:57.1 Jay Fiset: And in the large part, due to our work and participation of psychedelics that allowed us to see our history and patterns from different perspectives.

0:11:05.4 Cory Fiset: Yeah.

0:11:07.8 Paul Austin: Tell us a little bit about those. Like what what was brought into your awareness after doing really intentional psychedelic work as a couple? What was that shift like for your relationship, sort of a Jay and Cory before and Jay and Cory after this intentional work.

0:11:24.2 Jay Fiset: Is this an 18 hour podcast, Paul?

0:11:26.2 Paul Austin: Oh, yeah, exactly.

[laughter]

0:11:27.4 Paul Austin: Yeah, like you could just go, maybe like the 7 minute version.

[laughter]

0:11:33.8 Jay Fiset: Okay, here's what happened for us. Basically business, children, burying a couple of parents, some depression, some stuff going on that we end up in a position of really parallel lives, and we should put in context here is that we facilitated personal development programs for years. We led couples retreats and programs for years. And that actually caused us some harm because I'll, this conversation's like, Jesus, Murphy, if the two of us can't figure this, the hell out, what the hell? Like, who, like, come on we can do this, which caused us to not go get the support that we actually needed and the external perspective that we needed. So we're falling into these parallel lives, we keep doing things to try and make it better, and we would get 3 months or 6 months of sort of, yeah, we're in the groove, and then we would fall out for another 12 or 18 months of, I'm gonna call it parallel lives and coping, and so this went on for about 10 years after our second child came home.

0:12:45.7 Cory Fiset: And it wasn't terrible like it's not like we fought and it wasn't like we were on the verge of divorce, it was just like, the best way to explain it is just that parallel lives, like we're parents and we're running a business and I'm doing all the stuff with the kids and he's traveling and making money. And so, and we're just keeping on, keeping on. And before you realize it even, or you start to realize, wait a minute, this is more like our he's my best friend, he's like my brother. He is like my [chuckle].. And then it... You start to... We started to lose the...

0:13:24.3 Jay Fiset: Sparks, the passion, care, the...

0:13:26.8 Paul Austin: Polarity is a word that I often hear a lot in that.

0:13:29.0 Jay Fiset: Yeah. And I think, you know, the phrase that echoes when we're talking about this is like, it's like good or okay is the enemy of great. You know, like no one was unfaithful, no one... Like there wasn't most of the relationship drama that we are aware of that lots of people face, it just got so parallel that it became unbearable. So we keep trying, we keep trying, we keep trying, and it keeps getting meh meh meh meh and, I had been asked like in one of our, well, one, one of our several, you know, let's clean this up, to do MDMA about five well before this, so it'd be eight years ago, and...

0:14:12.5 Paul Austin: Wow.

0:14:12.5 Jay Fiset: And for contact...

0:14:12.9 Paul Austin: By yourself?

0:14:14.7 Jay Fiset: No, actually the first introduction was with a coach I was working with and I was describing where we were at, and he's like, "You and your wife still love each other. It's like, totally. And you and your wife, you and your wife still wanna sleep together, it's like, totally and it's like, I'm sending you MDMA and you're gonna do it, and it's gonna fix everything, and I'm like.

0:14:30.4 Paul Austin: Wow.

0:14:32.5 Cory Fiset: No.

[laughter]

0:14:32.7 Jay Fiset: And, and I mean that no seriously 'cause, and I think you and I talked about this, it's like, in my history, like in high school I sold weed and hash and hash oil and all this stuff, but I always had this very hard line about I would never do a chemical by the way, Cory's in the same boat, not that she sold stuff, but she'd never do a chemical. And, it was just, I couldn't bring myself to do something that I thought some dingbat was mixing up in a bathtub in his house. Right? Like, I just, I couldn't get over that hurdle, so literally eight years ago, it's like, you must try this. We have a 13 second dismissive conversation about it, and I'm just like, hell no a couple years later.

0:15:07.5 Cory Fiset: Yeah, and like, how could that make any... I mean I didn't even know exactly what it was, but I'm like, just, no and how could that help? Like, that doesn't make any sense, take drugs, what? That's gonna... No, just no [laughter] That was it, end of conversation, and we carried on.

0:15:24.5 Jay Fiset: Yeah, and I...

0:15:27.4 Cory Fiset: And all happy and stuff.

0:15:30.8 Paul Austin: If only right, if only then.

[laughter]

0:15:33.7 Jay Fiset: All happy and totally self-righteous about, it's like stupid.

0:15:37.0 Cory Fiset: We know better.

0:15:38.9 Jay Fiset: So then a couple years later, we're at a, and a thing called Mastermind Talks, run by Jayson Gaignard and Dan Engle is speaking there, and I am really inspired by this. And actually Cory, that was one of the trips that she'd actually come with me, so she was actually up in the room while I'm listening to this and I'm like, How do we do that? How? Like I was really quite inspired by it. We have another, I don't know, maybe 30 second dismissive conversation about it. And, and it gets [chuckle] it gets shelled. So, I guess I just wanna add to this in the story, so any of you who might be listening to this who are, who are dismissive and uncertain all sorts of things for the love of all things good in the world, just find a way to experience it safely and then decide, we were completely talking out of our, you know what, because we didn't know what we didn't know. Anyway, so fast forward, another two years, I'm actually at a racing school with a gentleman who is a fighter pilot for the US Navy and suffering from PTSD and a whole variety of things, and he talks to me about a woman therapist in Vancouver who he found, and he'd been doing MDMA assisted therapy with her and in his words, "It saved my life."

0:16:48.6 Paul Austin: Wow.

0:16:49.8 Jay Fiset: And I come back and, I take it as far as I have her name, I have her number, he's authorized me to talk to her because it has to have the secret handshake and all of the things that are sometimes required there and I talked to Cory about it, and we don't do it.

0:17:04.6 Paul Austin: Still?

0:17:04.7 Jay Fiset: Still still.

0:17:06.7 Paul Austin: So what made the difference? What, is it that finally got you over the, over the hunk?

0:17:13.1 Jay Fiset: I'm doing an event in San Diego, a dear friend of mine and a client of mine says, "Hey, I've been doing these MDMA journey things for now maybe four or five years, and you do you wanna try it? And at that stage of the game, I am, I'm just at my wits end about us, it's like, this is this, I don't know what else to do and I've done everything I know how to do and I think I'm done like I just, I...

0:17:37.1 Cory Fiset: And just prior to that happening though, I had come back to work with you. So like, things were starting to just kind of go take a, this trajectory.

0:17:45.5 Jay Fiset: A turn for the better for the first time in about a decade.

0:17:51.7 Cory Fiset: Yeah and I was at this event with Jay, and then I left early 'cause there were two back to back events, I left after the first one to get back home to the kids and then this happens at the end of the second one where he is given this opportunity to have this experience.

0:18:03.6 Jay Fiset: But here, here's the thing Paul and I feel embarrassed to tell the part of the story I'm about to tell, because I have no context of what this is, so he tells me about this and I say, okay, like, I mean, whatever, we just worked 14 days, me and my team have been exhausted and it's like, in my head I thought, we're ending the event, we're gonna go back to the suite, it'll be a little bit like smoking a little weed with my key clients and my team that's worked so hard and we're gonna enjoy one another's company, watch the sun go down and just have a little... And of course, that's not exactly what happened.

[laughter]

0:18:32.7 Paul Austin: What happened?

0:18:33.0 Cory Fiset: So the poor guy, not, I mean, I wasn't there like I said, but Jay explaining it, he's like, he kept saying, getting everyone's intention and being really clear before taking the medicine, and he's just like "give me the medicine, dude, [laughter], just give us this stuff." [laughter],

0:18:48.8 Paul Austin: Give us the drugs, come on.

0:18:51.4 Jay Fiset: At one point...

0:18:52.0 Cory Fiset: Not understanding right.

0:18:53.0 Paul Austin: Great.

0:18:53.6 Jay Fiset: At one point Paul, I heard these words of shit again, I'm embarrassed to say, but she's in complete transparency with people who might be struggling with, I want you to understand that. So I finally say to him, he's like, listen, will you please shut the F up and give us the drugs [laughter], because the sun is going down and I don't want to miss it, and you are effing this up. Like, come on. And, he's like, that's not how this goes [laughter] And I'm like, well, I think it is tonight. [laughter]

[music]

0:19:23.7 Advertisement: After hundreds of conversations with our listeners, we found that the single biggest problem when most people begin to explore the world of psychedelics is sourcing the medicine. So we've developed a creative solution. Third Wave's Mushroom Grow Kit and video course. Just go to thethirdwave.co/mushroom-grow-kit and use the code 3W podcast to get a $75 discount. I've experimented with a lot of different grow kits in the past and this one is seriously next level. We've partnered with super-nerd mycologists to make this the simplest, easiest grow kit possible. It's small enough to fit in a drawer and most people get their first harvest in four to six weeks. You get everything you need right out of the box, pre-sterilized, and ready to use. Except for spores, which we can't sell for legal reasons. And speaking of legal issues, growing your own mushrooms for "scientific purposes" is 100% legal in 47 states. You can have your private supply of medicine without the risk.

Our course also comes with a step-by-step high-quality video program showing you exactly what to do when you receive that mushroom grow kit. No blurry photos or vague language. You'll see exactly what to do each step of the way. Yields range from 28-108 grams, so this more than pays for itself in one harvest. Plus, you can get up to four harvests per kit. This is the simplest way to get a reliable supply of your own psilocybin mushrooms. Again, just go to thethirdwave.co/mushroom-grow-kit and use the code 3W podcast to save $75. The number three, the letter W podcast to save $75.

0:21:08.2 Jay Fiset: And so ultimately he shortened his little presentation. We did this and I proceeded to have, one of the top three or four most meaningful experiences of my entire life, which in a nutshell was this spotlight shone down on me. And without blame of me, without blame of Cory, I saw where I was at and the role that I had played in building a brick wall between us. And, literally I saw this brick wall between us and every single brick had a little story, or an excuse or a justification on it that I'd been building that was about denying what I wanted needed and where I was at, and was getting in the way of us actually having connection. And in an instant of what I would call like lightning bolt clarity. It was like, this isn't about her. This is about me and I'm going to lose weight.

0:21:53.1 Jay Fiset: I'm gonna fix my teeth. I'm gonna grow my hair, and I'm gonna get my needs met and fulfilled no matter what. And it was a degree of certainty that I have only ever experienced one other time in my life. And there was no, I have to work at it. There's no, it was just like, it was already done and underway. And, the irony to that is I did that journey weighing 203 pounds, the most I'd ever weighed in my entire life. And when I got home the next night, the day after I'd lost 10 pounds, which I think was just the 10 pounds of the weight, of the lie, of the deceit, of the justification that, I let go of in that moment of truth. And so I came home and I said, listen, I love you. I've been trying to get you to do things, so that we could be okay. And I'm not doing that anymore. This is what I'm doing. I love you and I want you to come along. And if you can't, that's okay too. And I understand. And that was the hinge upon which our entire universe changed. She was super happy about hearing all that, by the way. That was a great conversation.

0:22:57.3 Paul Austin: Yeah. What were your impressions of Jay coming back? Like what, what shifts did you notice? What did that feel like for...

0:23:02.9 Cory Fiset: Well, and just to add, he has since apologized to the fellow that night about how a woman she was, about how all that [laughter]

0:23:11.9 Jay Fiset: Many many times.

[laughter]

0:23:13.2 Cory Fiset: She's like, I'm so sorry dude. I did not understand what this was gonna be like this, But anyway, that's...

0:23:19.8 Jay Fiset: A complete dumb ass about that to be honest.

0:23:21.5 Cory Fiset: Well, it was difficult. Like he came home and he didn't tell me right away. Like he didn't get off the plane and go, guess what I did last night? There wasn't a conversation about it. And, because he knew, I mean, you knew I would number one, that you would do that without even saying anything to me or including me, or why didn't you tell me? Like there would be all a... And, so he kind of eased into this conversation about MDMA and I think we watched one of those goop shows together. [laughter], like at the time she had one out about that that just happened to be out at the same time. He's like, watch it. And, again, open the conversation about would I be open to trying this?

0:24:00.8 Cory Fiset: And then shared, his, so we had the talk, like, it was it was a difficult time, really difficult time because, that conversation at what he just shared with you about everything that had to change for him. And the one thing I think that saved us at that point is that we both loved each other. We both, we had the love there. I think if for either one of us if the love wasn't there, I'm not sure for me that I would've said, yes, I'm on board with you and how do we make this work? Like what do we do? And for you as well, it just it wouldn't have happened. So it...

0:24:44.7 Jay Fiset: And, we had this incredible blessing as well, which I say this trepidatiously, because I know it wasn't everyone's experience, was that that occurred basically the beginning of March, 2020 and eight days later, the entire world shut down. And I was... I used to be gone twice a two weeks out of the month. And the world shut down and here we are in this spot. And we thought, great. We're gonna have like three to six weeks to talk [laughter]

0:25:10.7 Cory Fiset: Turns on we had two years.

[overlapping conversation]

[laughter]

0:25:12.4 Paul Austin: Especially Canada [laughter]

0:25:16.2 Jay Fiset: But I'll just add one other thing that I think is important. And this part of this story seemed to be taking a long time. So just to get...

0:25:23.1 Paul Austin: No, this is beautiful.

0:25:23.2 Jay Fiset: But what really happened that, that was beautiful about Covid and with the use of, 'cause I want her to do MDMA right away, but we couldn't find a safe source here. It took us six months to find a safe source.

0:25:36.8 Paul Austin: Ah.

0:25:37.0 Jay Fiset: So, we did start experimenting with mushrooms and psilocybin actually helped us in inordinate amount in the early stages of reframing these conversations. But, here's the key thing that I think transpired was that this love that Cory 's talking about that we had is that we just got incredibly curious. Like, and it wasn't, and we weren't even sure we were gonna make it a decision. It wasn't like, okay, we're fixing it. It's all gonna be well, like we...

0:26:00.9 Cory Fiset: We made the agreement to dive into conversation. We had to talk and we had to communicate. And, we had not been, we both were feeling how we were feeling and we were avoiding it and we were...

0:26:13.3 Jay Fiset: We triggered each other. As soon as we tried to talk with people.

0:26:14.9 Cory Fiset: Yes, we would try to have a conversation. It would be like, it would just be, it would be tough, it'd be difficult, it'd be [laughter], we just couldn't do it. And so we'd end up both, arguing and we decided we had to have the conversation and we had to talk about how we got here and we got curious about how did we end up here? We love each other. Like, how did this happen? So that's how it started was those conversations. And, again, at that point, not even knowing that we're gonna...

0:26:43.3 Jay Fiset: Make it.

0:26:43.4 Cory Fiset: We're gonna make it. But this is, we didn't have that at the very beginning. And that's where I think the psilocybin mushroom journeys that we did really helped. Because it allowed us to engage at a different level.

0:26:54.1 Jay Fiset: Well, in fact, you nicknamed it early on truth sermon.

0:26:57.1 Paul Austin: Yeah.

0:26:58.2 Jay Fiset: It's like, I'm not sure. In fact there are a couple of times it's like, I'm not sure I want to have that conversation, but it's like, okay, the truth sermon's kicking in, here we go, [laughter] And literally, so we just had these I literally thousands of hours of conversation that really...

0:27:13.5 Cory Fiset: And difficult conversations.

0:27:15.7 Jay Fiset: Unbelievable.

0:27:15.8 Cory Fiset: Like stuff that we had to get on the table and talk about and resolve or come to an agreement about or.

0:27:22.7 Paul Austin: Same gonna be.

0:27:25.2 Cory Fiset: Yeah.

0:27:25.9 Jay Fiset: And, I think the key piece to that, that there was this freedom in we're not sure it's gonna work and we're not going anywhere and we're gonna get curious and find out how the hell we got here. Because how do two human beings who have some skills, who have a little bit of money, who have a ton of support, who have, love for each other, who are still sexually attracted to you, how the hell do we land in this spot? Like, seriously, how, and that, was magical. Anyway, six months later I finally get MDMA for her. Or you had a question? Go ahead.

0:27:55.4 Paul Austin: What was say, like what did you find was the answer to that question? Like, how did you end up in that spot?

0:28:06.2 Cory Fiset: Good question, Paul.

[laughter]

0:28:10.0 Jay Fiset: You take a run first? Or, do you want me to.

0:28:13.8 Cory Fiset: One of my things that I had to get, really accountable. What can easily happen in this kind of a situation is, well if you this or you that, or if you wouldn't have done this some years ago...

0:28:27.5 Paul Austin: Projection.

0:28:28.5 Cory Fiset: Years ago and if blah, blah, blah.

0:28:30.1 Paul Austin: Blame.

0:28:31.7 Cory Fiset: We dived into our own, accountability in this and how we got here. And mine, a big part of mine was taking him for granted. And in that, and that sounds like simple because yeah. That happens all the time. We take, but it, it, when it goes on and on and on and on, and then kids come and all that. And then Jace asked me a question, like right at the beginning of this. He said, where am I on your priority list? Like, where in your day-to-day, week to week, month and month? Where am I? And I had trouble answering that. I had trouble telling. Like, he wasn't, wasn't...

0:29:03.6 Jay Fiset: Can I actually put more detail to that? What I said was, I'm not on it. And she's like, yes you are.

0:29:09.0 Cory Fiset: Well yeah. Of course you are.

0:29:11.1 Jay Fiset: I said, and I'm like, well then you place it in all the things you deal with. Where am I? And she couldn't get me on the list.

0:29:17.5 Cory Fiset: And so that for me, it was like taking him for granted, not putting our relationship as a priority, because there were a million other things that were, I had to face that and acknowledge that and, am I willing to change that? Am I willing to do the work to shift that? And so really it was taking accountability and just checking into self about what is my role in what's the role I've played and how we ended up here in this spot. And, that, I mean, you just, you have to get honest about that. Otherwise it's not, the relationship is not gonna shift.

0:30:00.0 Jay Fiset: And, just the other side to that, which I didn't see at the time, this was actually after many journeys, after getting our, guide certification after a bunch of personal things that, because most of our journeys we did together. But, but I think the thing going back to the traumas we referred to earlier is that I've been fundamentally independent since I've been 12 years old. And, my mom and I, there's a story that I used to tell with great pride about my independence and how I've made my own way and all the rest of it. And it wasn't until doing a bunch of this work where I looked at it like, Jesus Christ, that is my core trauma is I am on my own. I'm independent, I take care of people, people don't take care of me. And then I proceeded to manifest that in my marriage. Until I couldn't take care of anyone else anymore. And I was crushed and broken. So, that was my part of it, which is, man, I can play that role. That's what I do. That's what I've done since I was 12 years old.

0:30:50.5 Cory Fiset: And he did it very well. And I would even find myself thinking like, Jay will always be there. Like, he's not going, he will always be there, [laughter], until, oh, Jay.

0:31:00.5 Paul Austin: You're taking for granted.

0:31:00.6 Cory Fiset: Might not always be there. Right, right. So.

0:31:01.7 Paul Austin: You're taking for granted part, right?

0:31:04.1 Jay Fiset: So, so that to me, I think is one of the core things. I was gonna answer it differently, hun. I was gonna say that there were so many, subtleties, like, it's almost like death by a thousand cuts. And those subtleties, in presence, those subtleties in sexuality, those subtleties in honesty, those subtleties in, participation with family. I don't know if you have in-laws, but sometimes that can be a little entertaining. Like there's all of those dynamics that we fell into a very difficult spot with. And, I'll just share my version of that is that, the 10 years prior to our, my first psychedelic experience, our second son came home. Her dad passed away and she fell into a depression. And, it was undiagnosed and she never would go to get it looked at or taken care of until, well, many years later.

0:32:06.6 Jay Fiset: But that first three years of that, I was like, I felt honored to serve and support the woman I love who's having a tough time given the circumstances we're in. It's okay. The next three years. Taxing and difficult. It was like that was where it was like, I need change and I need change now. 'Cause I can't keep doing this. Then the last three years we're just epically god awful. Which led to, my guide trying to lead a journey and I'm like, be quiet and give me the drugs.

[laughter]

0:32:37.6 Paul Austin: Just need the... I need the medicine.

0:32:40.6 Jay Fiset: But at the time I didn't...

0:32:43.5 Paul Austin: The sun's coming down.

0:32:45.0 Jay Fiset: And that was how ignorant I was, Paul, I didn't get that it was medicine. Right? Like, I didn't get that. I thought that this was just gonna be some altered state that'll help me cope with the difficulties of my life and working like a Mad man. Like I didn't get that it was medicine. And that's probably the loudest thing about, be quiet and give it to me. Right.

0:33:00.2 Paul Austin: Right. Right. So MDMA comes on the scene. COVID hits. Right. Jay, you got home a few days before Covid and you had shared a little bit about your own experience. Tell us a little bit then about how did you set up that first experience together? Did you bring in a therapist? Did you just do it you two Like, kind of bring us into that story now and what starts to shift as a result of working intentionally with MDMA?

0:33:26.0 Jay Fiset: And when you're saying the first experience, her first experience with MDMA.

0:33:31.1 Paul Austin: Well I would love to hear about that, but also then, your both like together when that happened.

0:33:38.3 Cory Fiset: Well, like he said, it was about, it was till June of 2020 where we were able to find secure, for me and, not to spend too much time on mine, but, I was really nervous about it. I was, the night before I was like, I'm not sure I wanna do this. And anyway, a long story short, I went ahead and with a therapist? Yes. With the same fellow who guided Jay and his team.

0:34:01.0 Jay Fiset: So we listened to... We listened slightly better this time. [laughter]

0:34:03.4 Paul Austin: Yeah, yeah.

0:34:03.9 Cory Fiset: So, but we had to do it over Zoom because we thought we could go to him or he could come to us, but because of Covid, that didn't happen. So he ended up, he was on, he was like, you on sitting there looking at me while I'm, and we had a conversation and we had a conversation while we were in the process and he told Jay to give me like kind of a tolerance test amount, just a small amount. We went to a hotel because our kids are here. We had auntie with her kids and it was all good, but we, don't bring anymore, just give her this and that's it and we're just gonna see how she is and we're gonna have a conversation and all that was fine. And I remember, kind of dropping in and just feeling this overwhelming, keep in mind, first time ever I've ever tried this ever, and I always remind myself of this experience when people come to us and it's their first time.

0:34:53.1 Cory Fiset: And I just remember, because now we've been three years, doing a lot and you kind of, I've kind of forgotten that very first experience of heart opening, with MDMA and it was spectacular. Like it was, I was just lying there on this bed with, our guy on the Zoom sitting on the ironing board, [laughter] the computer was on the ironing board anyway. And I'm just like, oh my God. Like, I just loved everything [laughter] Like I loved the bed, I loved the iron board, I loved him, I loved you, I loved, I went through that just beautiful, beautiful experience. And then it didn't last that long because it was a smaller amount. After maybe an hour and a half, two hours, I started to feel it leaving and I was just like, no, I don't want this to end.

0:35:37.1 Cory Fiset: Like, I don't want this feeling of myself to end. And I, how I've described it for me is it has given me the opportunity through various times of just really connecting with my true self and just really dropping into who I am and seeing the world from that space and communicating from that space and connecting with that part of me that I have never done before. I thought I had, but I hadn't. So often we get questions like, do you lose control? And, because that's a big concern people have about losing agency and I'm like.

0:36:09.2 Paul Austin: Especially entrepreneurs who are type A. And then, very linear for most of the lines for sure.

0:36:15.3 Cory Fiset: Right. For me it was the opposite. It was about coming more into myself and being more grounded in myself. So that was my first experience, which was, which was beautiful.

0:36:26.2 Paul Austin: I'd love to share a reflection on that, Cory, just one brief one. When MDMA first came on the scene in the late seventies, there was a guy named Leo Zeff who was, the core guy who started to get it out into the world. And he nicknamed MDMA ADAM because he said that MDMA brought you back into this sort of the Garden of Eden in a way, this sort of innocence and pure love that we know we are, but that for whatever reason, because of our traumas, because of our conditioning, because of just everything that's going on, we feel blocked. From, and so when I hear you talk about that state, that feeling there, I feel like there's, there's resonance. It's like, oh, you can really experience that true self that's not encumbered by all of the stresses and, particularities of life and it can just be fully like in the heart center, loved, present content, all those things.

0:37:28.0 Cory Fiset: Absolutely.

0:37:28.9 Jay Fiset: I'd never heard the ADAM story. Thank you for sharing that. But that is... It's... That's a powerful metaphor in my mind of what that what occurs. So we do that. And then we decide that we're gonna have our first MDMA together on our 25th wedding anniversary in August. And just to be clear all throughout this time we weren't sure we were gonna make 25 years. We just weren't sure. And so we on that night did MDMA together for the very first time had this spectacular and amazing experience. We redid our vows. We recommitted to one another in terms of what we'd call our next 25 years or our next 10000 days. And that began a 6 week cycle of us getting away from the world and intentionally using psychedelics to serve and support our connection our healing our evolution and our presence.

0:38:25.7 Jay Fiset: And that quite literally transformed us. And in about that timeframe we lost 60 pounds. Our sexual connection went through the absolute roof. Our joy and passion and connection was crazy. And literally Paul this is the craziest thing. We live on a cul-de-sac with a dog park in Calgary. And literally not long after this people taking their dog to the park came to our front step and knocked on the door. And it's like, we've been watching you guys. We don't know what you're doing but can you help us And we're like no we're just trying to figure our shit out ourselves. Thank you very much...

0:38:56.3 Cory Fiset: Out there is too much.

[laughter]

0:38:57.3 Jay Fiset: We just narrowly escaped our 25th divorce, right? Like, we don't, we can't help. But a couple of years later that, brought us to, if we're gonna do this, we need to educate ourselves, we did our guide certification with an organization I know you're familiar with, we absolutely love. We started Beta testing the connection experience in October and, the experiences have been like... I don't know how to say this, but it's like in sort of the romantic version, it's like what happened for us was like magical and unique and all the rest of it, it's like in the context of the work that we're doing with couples, it's like, that's sort of what you can expect, just like reinvent yourself, reinvent your relationship, reinvent everything, and I know that that sounds crazy to say, but it is the consistent testimonials that we get from folks about thank God I have my wife back, it's been 10 years and she's home, just things that literally make us cry.

0:39:56.0 Cory Fiset: It's been amazing.

0:40:00.3 Paul Austin: And I wanna get into this, but before we get into specifically the connection experience, I think even a little bit more backstory on, and you alluded to this already a little bit, but we heard about your personal story, high school sweethearts, some of the challenges that came up in relationship, how MDMA helped with that. But you all, you two have also been two badass entrepreneurs. You've built multiple businesses, you've been very successful in many regards. And I'd love if you could just bring us a little bit into that story what were Jay and Cory building prior to MDMA? And then I'd love if you could just talk a little bit about how your own healing through MDMA has actually started to shift and impact the way you do business, the way you think about business and what you actually think is important from an entrepreneurial perspective.

0:40:48.9 Jay Fiset: Wow, that's a lot of questions brother. [laughter]

0:40:51.2 Paul Austin: You got time. I know you love to talk, Jay. So I sense it'll just sort of flow.

[laughter]

0:41:00.7 Cory Fiset: I'll let you answer that, driving the bus and the whole entrepreneur side.

0:41:03.8 Jay Fiset: So to be clear, one of the challenges between us and our relationship was my entrepreneurial drive and my propensity to risk the firm. And she, and Cory comes from a, you work 50 years for a gold watch 'cause you make god damn sure that you can pay the mortgage and everybody's okay. And that's how that goes. So that, that was a dynamic that was, I think both worked for us and was challenging over the years. So I'll answer the entrepreneurial stuff and then she can correct it from her perspective of what it's like living with a crazy person. So about this time and sort of, I'll actually, I should probably get a check today we spent almost 30 years in a personal development company called Personal Best Seminars here in Calgary, it arguably became one of the largest personal development companies in Canada, and something like 40,000 people went through those doors over the years.

0:42:04.8 Paul Austin: Wow.

0:42:06.7 Jay Fiset: So going back to your question of how did we also navigate is that we grew up in this environment of attempting to be more conscious, which didn't always work quite clearly, of attempting to be more conscious, attempting to be accountable in terms of our process, serving and supporting literally tens of thousands of people which had strength to it, but also caused us this difficulty of, hey, if we can't figure out who the hell can.

0:42:23.2 Cory Fiset: Well, and because we also facilitated couples weekends retreats, we've worked with hundreds of couples over the years in.

0:42:30.9 Jay Fiset: A lots of different ways yeah, so...

0:42:32.4 Cory Fiset: How to build your relationships.

[laughter]

0:42:34.2 Jay Fiset: So we basically, I bought that in a bankruptcy, we grew that to be a strong seven figure business. That was all well and fine. I got to the spot where I was like kind of done with this personal development world, I wanted to do something more high level so we did, a bunch of high level masterminds that was a good, nice, strong seven figure business, and then through a weird turn of events when I decided I didn't want to do the, as much in-person work, I wanted to do digital marketing. 'Cause those were the days where you could send an email and make 17 million dollars. I guess...

0:43:00.2 Paul Austin: The Wild west the early days of, the good day.

0:43:03.7 Jay Fiset: Exactly, exactly, so I got this email that said, hey stay at home, drink coffee, wear your pink fuzzy slippers and make millions and I'm like, and put for context, like that year we had done 287 live events in four different cities, yes so just...

0:43:20.9 Jay Fiset: For context, it's like staying at home, sending an email that sounded really pleasurable. And of course I dove into that and I failed miserably because, getting supported not one of my strongest suits, three years later after burned through a bunch of cash, I end up on this, somebody asked me about running masterminds, which is something that my core business did. And I said, I have this whole training program, I'll just give it to you. And that went from zero to, I think we did $2.6 million US in 14 months accidentally out of just taking this internal training program and sharing it with people, which was totally fantastic. And then in that whole digital marketing world, I became sort of a little bit like a rising start, it's like, how'd you do that? And the answer to that question was joint ventures, it's like, can you teach me? It's like, no, not what we do, it's like, are you sure? Would you please? And then that actually gave birth to this thing called the Joint Venture Summit, which is what you and I are talking about way back in 2015.

0:44:16.0 Jay Fiset: And then that gave birth to another brand called JVology, The Perfect Mix Of People, Fun & Profit. So anyway, that's a bunch of context to say personal development masterminds, both running them and teaching people how to position, launch and lead them that led to this joint venture Umbrella. And that sounds like I'm a little bit schizophrenic, which may or may not be true. But the golden thread between all of those organizations is that we serve and support people to create conscious communities of choice. And whether that's in a mastermind group, whether that's in a personal development choice in family, whether that's in your joint venture, or community group, all of those pieces. And then that also carries forward into our new world, which is this thing called connected now and forever, which is to create couples communities that are conscious communities of choice. And it starts right here, with the love of my life and then other committed couples who are doing the same kind of work. So the thread is the same, the mechanic changes, but I'd say my sort of stupid human trick is anything that I really love and I'm passionate about, I can make a seven figure business out of in about four months. [laughter]

0:45:22.8 Paul Austin: I want that skill. It sounds phenomenal. Fix all my problems.

0:45:28.1 Jay Fiset: She might warn you otherwise.

0:45:30.3 Paul Austin: So what's the shadow side of that, Cory? Tell us, tell us what's been your experience. 'cause I was raised in a similar environment as you. My mom is a social worker. My dad worked at a university, super frugal, Midwest, dollar allowance. And so becoming an entrepreneur in the last 10 years, I've had to learn a lot about stepping out of that story and releasing it. I'm not quite as much of a maverick as Jay in terms of betting the farm, but I did, choose to build an entrepreneurial career on psychedelics, which is a whole another.

0:46:05.8 Jay Fiset: That's a fair risky maneuver, man.

0:46:08.5 Paul Austin: Yeah. My 25 year old self didn't really think anything of it. Like never. Now I'm like, yeah. So what was it like for you, Cory, just being with Jay during all that time and supporting him and not supporting him or kind of how were you involved with that?

0:46:23.3 Cory Fiset: It's certainly, the whole, it challenges the whole security value system, and in as, there's that side, but then there's also the side, which is the reality of running your own business. There's the ups, there's the downs, there's the ups, there's the peaks and the valleys of especially running live events and the flow of income. And so in a, like when you get a nine to five job and you're paid every second Friday and you're paid this amount, you can plan, you can prepare, you can budget, you can do all that in this world. It's like, okay.

0:46:54.3 Jay Fiset: We're billionaires. We're broke.

0:46:57.5 Cory Fiset: This week...

0:46:57.6 Jay Fiset: We're billionaires. We're broke.

0:47:00.5 Cory Fiset: And I... That would stress me out, like really stressed me out. So I had to, figure that out. And then there was the fact of him traveling a lot. So there was a price on the other side of it, of being away a lot. He was away, I don't know. He figured it out.

0:47:16.7 Jay Fiset: I think it was... It was between 10 and 14 days a month for almost eight years.

0:47:21.2 Paul Austin: Yeah. And so that was the period where we started falling into this, the parallel lives thing as well. And I started to feel like a single parent. He was there for some of the hockey games and school things and a lot, he wasn't. And then... And raising two boys and then, he would come home and he'd be like, work so hard all week and blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, me too, trying, do you see the value in what I'm doing and holding down the fort here and taking care of and everything. And I felt, and it was my own stuff. It felt like I wasn't being valued for everything I was doing. And he didn't feel like he was being acknowledged and valued for everything he was carrying. And so we were both kind of all, in that little indignant, well, I'm doing all this, well, I'm doing all this. And...

0:48:11.5 Jay Fiset: Can I say it another way?

0:48:13.2 Cory Fiset: We fell into some issues with that.

0:48:13.9 Jay Fiset: We fell into a lot of issues with that. And this goes back to the MDMA experience that to be witnessed and heard in the state of true self is one of the most healing aspects of everything that we do. And what was just described there is the reality of the day today, which is we were not in our true selves working as hard as we possibly freaking could and still remained unseen.

0:48:48.5 Paul Austin: Yeah. And so it's like there's sacrifice, there's toil, there's I'm taking so much of this on, I'm doing all, and you both feel that way. So then there's resentment that builds up from that. And so, and what I heard in this MDMA story is, once we let go of the resentment, and I think once we let go of the blame in relationship and we take full ownership and accountability over our sovereign experience of life, then that allows for almost a rebirth of, oh, we can be two self-realized individuals coming together rather than two codependent people who are constantly projecting and blaming one another for the challenges or difficulties. Right.

0:49:26.6 Jay Fiset: Oh, yes.

0:49:28.6 Cory Fiset: Yeah. Absolutely.

0:49:31.8 Paul Austin: So I'd love if you could just bring our listeners into the container and structure that you are now creating for couples with MDMA. What is that process like? You've started to do this already. What are you noticing? What type of healings are happening? How is it shifting relationships? Bring us a little bit into the work now that you're actually facilitating.

0:49:53.3 Jay Fiset: So the core of your question in terms of what we're doing now and why goes back to a really important thing I wanted to share. So our 25th, we have this incredible experience that is out on earth. It was, best of our lives together. And then six weeks later, we have another, what we've come to call adventure plan. And a few days earlier, she's like, oh my God, I'm totally stressed out about this. I'm worried about this., how could... How could we ever have anything, any work, we'll never touch that again. And it's like, just relax. We're just gonna go be with each other. Anyway, I'd say for six months, every single time we'd have an adventure plan, you were worried that it was going to be some let-down experience and that it wouldn't have...

0:50:37.7 Cory Fiset: Because the last one was just so amazing and life-changing. So they were all that way. But...

0:50:43.5 Jay Fiset: So anyway, we began a protocol to prepare for what our adventures were gonna be like. And that protocol was just designed first and foremost for us to be in the right head and heart space for her to not have anxiety about meeting or beating the last one. And that really just started with this five days before, what is the intention that we want to experience? What do we want to give? What do we want to receive? What do we want to share? And we would start talking about that, so day five, day four, day three, then we would abstain from any sort of intimacy or sexual connection, but we would be still flirting and playing and texting and all those sorts of things leading up to the actual day. So we built this ramp up to our adventure nights. And then we sort of almost naturally came into this follow up integration because our belief is it's well and fine to have these beautiful experiences, but it has to change the fabric that...

0:51:41.5 Jay Fiset: The experience day-to-day, moment to moment in our homes, in our bedrooms, in our hearts, in our relationship with our kids, with our families. So we ended up in these integration conversations of, so what was most meaningful in that particular experience? How do we integrate that day-to-day between the experiences? How do we support one another to one of the things that we got to, was we started working out together again. And that might not seem like much, but working out together was an incredibly powerful embodiment and somatic experience of integrating and aligning those experiences. So, we had, our bedroom that used to be bedroom turned into our sanctuary, that has a massage table and all those sorts of things. We have a big tub where we would go and plan to have meaningful conversations about particular topics in the tub and we nicknamed them tub talks with Jay. So, there was just a whole bunch of very practical tactical integration pieces that we then designed a similar experience for our couples and for our clients to follow the five days after.

0:52:45.1 Cory Fiset: The other thing we noticed in between our adventures and the subtleties of the shifts between us, our engagement with one another, how we communicated with each other, how we acknowledged each other, how we I mean we, as we've said, been together 35 plus years and just pass each other in the kitchen and give each other a little kiss or how we engage with one another just day to day and we'll be parenting the kids and how we were speaking to each other. It all changed. It all changed without trying to change it. Like, that's the amazing thing. It's like these three things gotta change and this is what we're gonna do. It just through the neurogenesis, through the rewiring, through whatever was going on in our, in those times together that we set aside, we became different people. And how we interacted became different. It just happened.

0:53:36.7 Jay Fiset: Beautiful.

0:53:37.8 Cory Fiset: And that's one of the things that's hard to describe to people. Like, "What do you mean? How does that?" You just have to do it. You just have to have the experience to know what it is I'm talking about. 'Cause it happened without us even realizing it was happening. And there's not a step-by-step A, B, C, D, E, F, G thing we can give to people and say, "Here, this is how you do this." It was fascinating. It was beautiful. It was, but that just became our day-to-day experience in between our adventures.

0:54:07.6 Jay Fiset: And if I can just add real quick, that thing I was talking about, is being seen and witnessed in the state of true self. Naturally became seeing and witnessing the true selves in one another while we were not on journey.

0:54:23.3 Jay Fiset: Like that just carried forward. In fact, we were one of the best things. We get testimonials from people like, they just send us "Like what happened" Right? So this dear friend of ours, they've had a consistent rub in their relationship and she has a tendency to withhold, which was something that we experienced until it came out. And so she decided, "I'm not gonna withhold when I feel it, I'm going to articulate it." Which would normally be the start of the fight. So she feels it, she says, "Hey, can we talk about this?" They talk about it, and his response, which is usually defensiveness and resistance and all sorts of things was, "I hear you. How can I help?" And like, she just sent this note, she said "Like, we've been together like for decades." And that we have, those words had never passed in his lips like ever, particularly not in a circumstance of conflict. "I see you. How can I help?" Like, that's what shifts, it's beautiful.

0:55:17.6 Cory Fiset: And that's how we came up with the name A Connection Experience, because if we were to summarize or encapsulate what was going on with us, it was about our connection. And somebody also said we've been to therapy for years to try to.

0:55:35.0 Jay Fiset: Solve the problem so we can get connected.

0:55:37.0 Cory Fiset: So we can get connected. And in this experience we were able to get connected first, and then we could have the conversations, like it was turned around, it was opposite. That's the word we came up with to best describe what was happening for us.

0:55:53.0 Paul Austin: And ideally, there's, right, that connection then, and what the medicine often teaches, this has been my experience, whether it's MDMA or other medicines, is the more we can get out of a fix it mindset, the better 'cause the fix it mindset then is something that, it's sort of a mode of reactivity and it keeps us stuck in a circumstance where we feel like we don't have urgency and accountability. And when we're too, like you said, when we step into this true self, we're two adults. Well, there's gonna be challenges, there will be obstacles, but if we're always here and communicating and have that commitment to one another, then there's nothing that needs to be fixed. Instead it's just like, there's things that need to be talked about and communicated around.

0:56:41.8 Jay Fiset: I wrote an article which was, Reinvent versus Repair. And that whole idea that we could actually just reinvent ourselves, which frankly we didn't know, like this became a reinvention that we didn't know that that was possible because we'd spent years trying to repair. And I totally 100% agree with your grounding.

0:57:04.3 Paul Austin: And it's the default state for most people that we've been conditioned into, right? To fix, to repair, to solve, but I think thinking about it from a much more sort of a lens of ingenuity or a lens of innovation is much more revitalizing for relationships.

0:57:22.7 Jay Fiset: Yeah.

0:57:24.4 Cory Fiset: Most definitely. And it allows for the longevity of that, you know, it's not just a little quick fix for, "Oh, a couple months we'll be better and then that's it." It carries on and on and on. Like, it feels like the most, I don't wanna use the word permanent, but long-term, if both people are willing to be really present in engaging it, that their relationship can absolutely shift long-term. And the integration is a huge part of that, but it's the only thing we have found in our entire life together that has allowed for this kind of reinvention, connection, staying married, like it's the only thing.

0:58:07.5 Jay Fiset: Depth of the transformation and length, not length, and term of transformation. If you think of a depth then term, nothing... And just to be clear about this, we've been in personal development space for over 35 years, so you name it...

0:58:18.8 Paul Austin: Sounds like you haven't tried other tricks and other modalities, right? Yeah.

0:58:22.7 Jay Fiset: And people say to me, "You ever heard of the Enneagram?" Yeah. I did it 22 years ago. It's pretty fantastic. It's like we like that that litany in that list was incredibly long short of any...

0:58:36.0 Cory Fiset: Have you ever gone in a dyad and talked about how you feel? Yeah, yeah, we have. But anyway, and not to downplay what people do and where they're at, 'cause there's a million things that can work. But I'm trying to think of the key thing too is the amygdala being offline and really being able to share without that fear and ego and how's he gonna take this? And that's just gone. And I say to you, can you imagine just having the tough, edgy conversation with that, not active.

0:59:12.0 Jay Fiset: From the space of compassion for self and your partner. Imagine that.

0:59:14.8 Paul Austin: Exactly. Because then you have way more room and spaciousness to hold whatever... And in an interesting way, none of it is taken personal. And, all of it... There's always, I find accountability. It's like I don't take this personal, it is what needs to be spoken. And if there's accountability that I need to take for certain actions or ways that I'm behaving, I will take that accountability because it's what is going to be best for our relationship.

0:59:45.8 Cory Fiset: Absolutely. Yeah.

0:59:48.9 Jay Fiset: It is spectacular in that manner. I think the only other thing that I really wanted to share about it was this idea that as terrified as we were, that there's some symmetry to, somebody's thinking, I wonder if we should do that as a couple, or like, I wonder if that could really make a difference or sort of been there, done that, or... We hear this lots of times, like, I've done it in a recreational setting so I know how this goes. It's not it. The intention, the container, the setting, that entire process is so dramatically different that for whatever your concerns are, and this is, and I've said this to a couple of people on our sort of intake calls that, if you were to say that your fear is a 95 out of 100, and you're willing to face it accountably, honestly, and bring your commitment to your best self, which is really what the integration is about this, I'll become the best version of myself and bring that to the woman I love, and she'll become the best version of herself and bring that to the man she loves, and together we'll create a relationship that we have no idea was even possible.

1:00:53.4 Jay Fiset: But if you're scared, like 95 out of 100, and you're willing to face it, that your reward for that will be 10 times over. Like that... We keep, what we call breaking the scale for how we measure our relationship. Our couples keep breaking the scale for what they thought was possible in terms of intimacy, in terms of connection, in terms of sexual expression, in terms of happiness, in terms of joy. It's like, I really thought if I got from a six to an eight, and that's like, I would never go back to an eight in my... Like, we're at 110. Like we keep breaking the scale and that, and I think it's directly related to whatever my fear and resistance is. If you can face that, the upside of the, we'll break the scale 10 times over, and we have... Well, personal experience and testimonial after testimonial after testimonial of that being true.

1:01:42.8 Paul Austin: Yeah. It's exponential, not linear.

1:01:45.0 Jay Fiset: Yes. Thank you. That's... Yes.

1:01:46.0 Paul Austin: The best transformation is...

1:01:49.2 Cory Fiset: He's very good at that.

1:01:54.4 Jay Fiset: And we were trying, but, and I guess here's the crazy part to this, is we as human beings aren't wired to understand exponential. That's the truth of it, is we are not wired to understand it, which is where the language and the experience and the descriptions never do its service because it doesn't fit on our curve, which is pretty darn linear. And we even, well, human beings have trouble with linear, if we get three to five years out, we can't figure that out, let alone exponential in four months.

1:02:24.3 Paul Austin: And that's even, I mean, this is a whole different episode, but the articulation of those terrains with psychedelic medicine and how we then weave that back into our everyday life. That's so central to the integration process for relationships. It's like, Oh, I can actually... That's not just a dream. It actually is something that I can fetch, that I can rewire myself with. And so the language, the question, like even something like non-violent communication. Like, Oh, that can actually... I can choose every day to act that way in relationship. And MDMA is often a great teacher about what that actually feels like.

1:03:00.2 Jay Fiset: Yes. That's a beautiful example. It's a beautiful example. Last thoughts about that?

1:03:08.2 Paul Austin: Any final thoughts, Cory?

1:03:09.0 Cory Fiset: No, I'm good.

1:03:11.3 Jay Fiset: Can I share just one thing that I...

1:03:12.9 Paul Austin: Please, as we move out.

1:03:13.5 Jay Fiset: I thought we should bring up, which is so many women who have gone through this process have had some version of, this is the first time in my life, in my entire life where I saw myself, my body as perfect and whole, and I could love it without a single negative thought. And that presence and acceptance, physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, sexually, that presence and acceptance opens up pathways to connection, love, and experience that, again, are exponential and break the scale. But I do think that it's a really important component in the work that we do. We hear that over and over and over again. You had very similar experiences that just open the door to aspects of self and connection that previously did not seem possible. We hear that all the time.

1:04:08.7 Cory Fiset: Yes, we do.

1:04:10.8 Paul Austin: That's healing in relationship as well, because so much of the insecurity of this body dysmorphia, it's challenges around eating. So having that and that healing for a woman is super powerful. Jay and Cory, this has been an honor. So the Connection Experience, we'll have links to that in the show notes. If folks wanna learn more about how they might, if there are any couples who are listening to this or any people who are in a relationship who are listening to this, who are interested in, please go to the show notes, check that out. Any other assets, resources that you want to point people to before we wrap up today?

1:04:51.1 Jay Fiset: Yeah, I really think that link is great. We have a Facebook page called Love, Sex and Psychedelics, where we discuss all of these things and share great podcasts and articles from places like the Third Wave, to educate and help people just understand what the implications might be. So if you're interested in joining a community, to discover, reinforce and, play, search us on Facebook as well, Love, Sex and Psychedelics, in that order.

1:05:19.0 Paul Austin: Cory, any final things from you or does that sound... Does that wrap up?

1:05:25.3 Cory Fiset: Yeah. No, the Facebook group is great and maybe the Fireside Chat link would be good. We get a lot of the same questions. So we did this video, a Fireside Chat, that just kind of answers all the frequently asked questions in one fell swoop, and I think if anyone's interested, that's basically the place to start. Check that out, and I'm sure your question will get answered in there and yeah.

1:05:48.5 Paul Austin: Well, great. Well, thank you so much for spending the time. This is beautiful. And I just appreciate both of you for sharing your story, most importantly, and now for also the work that you're doing, up in Alberta. It's really been an honor to sit down with you and hear...

1:06:01.6 Jay Fiset: Thank you, brother.

1:06:02.7 Cory Fiset: Yeah, thank you, Paul.

1:06:03.8 Jay Fiset: We appreciate you having us.

1:06:05.3 Cory Fiset: Absolutely. That was fun.

1:06:06.5 Paul Austin: Absolutely, it was fun, wasn't it?

[music]

1:06:15.4 Paul Austin: Hey, folks, this conversation is bigger than just you or me, so please leave a review or comment so others can find the podcast. This small action matters way more than you can even imagine. You can also go deeper into this episode at thethirdwave.co/podcast, where you'll find full show notes, transcripts, and all the links that were mentioned in this conversation. To get weekly updates from the leading edge of this Third Wave of psychedelics, sign up for our newsletter at thethirdwave.co/newsletter. You can also find us on Instagram @thirdwaveishere, or subscribe to our YouTube channel at youtube.com/thethirdwave.

[music]